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What if discovering your purpose could change the way you experience every part of your life?

In this episode, we sit down with Victor Strecher, behavioral scientist, University of Michigan professor, and author of Life on Purpose, to explore what it means to live with intention and discover what truly matters. Victor shares the deeply personal story of losing his daughter, Julia, and how that experience transformed his perspective on life, identity, and the importance of living with purpose.

We explore how understanding our core values, recognizing our strengths, and finding meaning through life's challenges can help us make lasting changes. Victor also introduces his SPACES framework: sleep, presence, activity, creativity, eating, and social connection, and explains how building our energy can help us bring our purpose into everyday life.

The conversation also touches on life transitions, emotional resilience, and the role of AI in personal development. Victor shares his work with the Values Identity Constellation and Purposeful app, and why understanding who we are is more important than ever as technology continues to evolve. Together, we explore how to embrace life's challenges, discover our own direction, and make the most of the time we have.

Topics We Explore:

• Discovering Your Purpose and Living with Intention
• Finding Meaning Through Grief, Loss, and Life's Challenges
• Understanding Your Identity, Core Values, and Personal Strengths
• Navigating Life Transitions and Redefining Your Direction
• The Values Identity Constellation and Purposeful App
• The SPACES Framework: Sleep, Presence, Activity, Creativity, Eating, and Social Connection
• Staying Human, Authentic, and Purposeful in an AI-Driven World

Connect with Victor Strecher: https://www.linkedin.com/in/victor-strecher-947558a/ 

Learn More about The Viking Academy: https://www.vikingacademy.com

 

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Episode Transcript:

Erik Solbakken: Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Viking Academy Podcast. This week we have Vic Strecher on the podcast. Now, Vic wrote the book Life on Purpose. If you're watching the video, you see me holding it up. This book that I have here is ear tagged. It is marked up. It is got notes written all over it.

When I read this book, Life on Purpose: How Living for What Matters Most Changes Everything, it rocked me. It was... It- we're so in alignment, Vic and I, but he is so much farther down the line here. He is a professor from the University of Michigan, and he wrote this book. He's got tons of apps that are available as well that can help you find your, uh, purpose in life.

Um, the alignment between the Viking Academy ethos and what Vic has done is, uh, is surprising. I also found out that he's Norwegian, so that would... could explain why, um, there was a connection there with him as well. We go deep into the book Life on Purpose. We talk about where it originally came from, w- which he tells and shares, uh, the tragedy of what happened with his daughter, which then turned around into his greatest purposeful life that he's ever lived.

And ultimately what I want from this podcast is for you to really hear what Vic has to say and ask yourself the question, "What is m- what is my life's purpose? What is the purpose of my life?" And that's why I've created the Viking Academy is 'cause I want you to be able to actively explore that. And Vic and I have a really great conversation.

It goes on... This is a good sized podcast, this one, so you might wanna listen to it in a couple chunks and go back and re-listen to it. It is, uh, packed with purpose and passion. And, uh, my new friend, Vic Strecher, um, I'm so looking forward to hearing what you have to say about this podcast, and I'm looking forward to listening into it myself, uh, after I finish recording this intro and it gets published, 'cause I'll be listening to it again myself, 'cause I do that with almost every single one of my podcasts.

I'll listen to them again, and I'm always shocked at how much incredible knowledge and wisdom is brought forth with all our guests. So incredibly grateful for that. So without further ado, let's go. What are we doing? Explore.

 

Erik Solbakken: Victor, welcome.

Victor Strecher: Great being here, Eric

Erik Solbakken: Um, so y- just before we started recording, you said that you had some Norwegian in your blood. We're gonna have to hit- Yeah

that one first because, of course- That's true ... I'm Norwegian, 100% Norwegian, but you said you're a quarter?

Victor Strecher: Yeah.

Erik Solbakken: Yeah. And do you know where, what parts of Norway you're from?

Victor Strecher: No idea. Well- No idea. But I, you know, I, I did look at a history of my DNA and found that that part of my... You know, everybody came from Africa, but the- there, d- but that part of me kept going north, further north, further north, and just didn't really stop.

Other parts, like, would stop in places that it was a little warmer, and this one quarter of my DNA just kept going way up to Lapland or some area where basically people didn't wanna see anyone else, I think. You know, they didn't want- Yeah ... to be messed with, and they didn't mess with other people. Well, then there are the Vikings, of course.

But, uh- ... you know, at, I... It, it typifies my mom who, uh, is the ha- she's half Norwegian. And, um, and definitely she is not the most social person, so- Yeah ... that, that was a big part.

Erik Solbakken: Yeah. If you wanna, if you wanna... It's interesting 'cause in Norway, it's, it's a social place, but it's not super, shall we call it super friendly-ish.

Like, y- there's- Yeah ... people keep to themselves. They just very much, they, they believe in privacy, and so they very much stay out of each other's business, but then they get together and very social because, you know, it's dark a lot of the time of the year there.

Victor Strecher: I'm, I'm sure that's true. Yeah. Yeah. I've never been, and I really do wanna go.

Erik Solbakken: Oh, you got... It's, it's fantastic. The fjords of Norwa- Yeah When I'm in the fjords of Norway, I feel the most alive.

Victor Strecher: Like- Really?

Erik Solbakken: Oh, I just, there's... It, be- and being on the ocean, so I was just telling you about that the fact that- Yeah ... I live in the p- Puget Sound, basically. Yeah. So I'm, I've got my boat, and when I go out on the water, I'm the happiest person in the world.

Like, I am... Like, my wife goes, "I think it's time for you to go out on the boat," 'cause she knows I'm being a grumpy bastard, right? She's like, "It's time for you to go." And so I'll go out on the boat.

Victor Strecher: Oh, that's so cool. '

Erik Solbakken: Cause it just, it, but the fjords of Norway, it's like, oh man. Yeah. And I bet you your DNA and your, would, would vibrate when you get into the fjords 'cause you've got that Viking blood in you, right?

Victor Strecher: 100%. I really want to go, so okay. Cool. That's great. I'll get some more recommendations from you of just where to go.

Erik Solbakken: Oh, yeah. Down the road. We've g- we, we got-

Victor Strecher: Okay ...

Erik Solbakken: I got lots of recommendations on that. Cool. So, um, it was funny. So when we first started talking, I said I'm a bit, like, almost starstruck because I've got your book, Life on Purpose- Yeah

and I've been... I, like- Yeah ... if you were to look at it, Victor, you would see it, it is, like, highlighted and marked up. It's almost like I've studied it like I'm doing a university course. It's, it's ear tagged and marked. It- Oh ... for those who look into V- Whoa ... this is, this is what it looks

Victor Strecher: like. Whoa. Okay? Okay.

Wow.

Erik Solbakken: And I'm

Victor Strecher: e- That's a lot of pressure.

Erik Solbakken: Well, I gotta tell you, man, like, I, when I reached out and I, and of course I sent you the picture of me holding the book, and I'm smiling, and I'm like, "Dude- Yeah ... can we just talk about this?"

Victor Strecher: Right.

Erik Solbakken: Did... You wrote this 10 years ago, though.

Victor Strecher: I d- I did.

Erik Solbakken: Like- Yeah ... and I'm just...

I, I was like, that's... It's amazing. In... A couple things I just wanted to say on it, and then I wanna kinda understand the backstory on it, and for our listeners- Yeah ... to understand it, too. But when you were walking through the beginning parts of it, I love how you mesh philosophy with science. Thank you. And you've said, "Here's what this...

Here's what science has failed us, and here's how philosophy has failed us," but in your book, you took the two and you put them together, and then that- ... for me, the, the philosopher and the psychol- like, I've got a u- degree in psychology, and- Excellent ... very much in philosoph- deep philosophical- Mm-hmm

thinking, and it was like the two came together, and I was like, "Whoa!" And so I loved that, how you, you meshed the two together. So, and you created practical steps for people to actually go, "Well, that's fine from a philosophical point of view, and now I understand it from a scientific point of view why life on purpose is so important," but then you give us actual practical steps on how to actually go dis- go explore it and discover it, which is like- Yeah

the Viking Academy ethos, which is like, it's like you're my brother from another mother.

Victor Strecher: We may be. We may be related.

Erik Solbakken: Yeah.

Victor Strecher: In fact, yeah, I'll bet we are in some way. Yeah. I'm sure we share some DNA, at least in our hair. It sticks straight up, right?

Erik Solbakken: That's true. Yeah. The spike one. So Life on Purpose, tell me a little bit more about- What got you to write this book?

Yeah. And, and I'm, I'm curious on the history, but I'm also curious on where your new thinking is going forward, but we'll get to that later. For sure. But I wanna talk about this- Right ... uh, the, where you're at right n- like when you wrote

Victor Strecher: this. Yeah.

Erik Solbakken: Yeah.

Victor Strecher: Yeah. Well, so, um, I'm a professor at the University of Michigan, have been for 30 years.

I, um, I'm a behavioral scientist. I'm in the School of Medicine and the School of Public Health. So one of the great jobs I have is helping people change their lives, and it is really cool. I mean, what a job to be able to, like, e- even, even helping people realize they have some agency, that they have a say over how they're gonna live their lives.

And people change. I see it every single day. I see it all the time everywhere, lots of different kind of people. And, you know, you look out in Puget, Puget Sound from beautiful Victoria and you may see some orca. And, you know, the, that, that group of orcas may ... By the way, is it orca plural or orcas?

Erik Solbakken: Uh, we c- I still call them killer whales, but that just dates

Victor Strecher: me, right?

Okay, killer whales.

Erik Solbakken: So these killer whales- I still call them killer whales even though everybody says, "Well, they're orcas." Yeah. I'm like, "No, they're killer whales." I was

Victor Strecher: brought up- So this school yeah, so they kill ... So this school of killer whales, maybe they go, "You know, I'm not sure we should keep eating seals right now.

I think we're gonna start eating, you know, mackerel or something el- like that, you know? I heard it's healthier for you." They don't do that typically. We do. We say, "Maybe I'll change what I eat," or, "I'll start working out more. I'll go hiking. Maybe I'll start meditating. I'll try that. I'll start watercoloring, painting, or who knows?"

You know? People try to improve themselves. They try to take new directions in their lives, and I find that very magical. I think it's really special about human beings, and maybe other animals do that. Maybe ants, you know, say, "I think I won't be part of that." I, but I doubt it. So I think we're special in that sense.

And, um- I love helping people make changes in their lives. I don't want to, quote, motivate people, but I do want to appeal to their motives and better understand them. And in doing that and understanding their why, maybe I can help them a bit, as Friedrich Nietzsche said, with their how. He who has a why can manage almost any how.

And I do find that that's absolutely the case. Uh, so that's, that's one, thing one. And that's taken-- that took about 30 years for me to realize in my profession. It-- I'm slow, I guess. I'm a slow learner. I was using a lot of other kind of behavior change models to help people, and I kept feeling like I was just skimming the surface of humans.

And it took a while, really, like 30 years of other people's research, really. And then I start diving into this research like, what's at the root system of this tree? We keep dealing with, especially in public health and medicine, we almost are in a helicopter looking down at a forest, and we look at the tops of the trees.

You know, maybe people's behaviors or their illness status or their emotions or something like that. But we're not getting deeper. We're not going into like, what, what matters to them? What are their core values? What is their purpose? Do they have a purpose and direction in their lives? Um, do they have certain strengths?

Do they realize what those strengths are? Do they know which strengths they need to enact in order to fulfill their purposes that they might have in their, in their lives? So those are the things I started thinking about more It was in large part prompted by the passing of my daughter, Julia. Um, and she was born healthy.

Uh, a- and she w- we were on sabbatical in the Netherlands. I was on a research sabbatical, brought the family, and, uh, which we were so excited about, and she was just six months old. And she ended up catching a chicken pox virus, apparently. Um, and that chicken pox virus usually causes, you know, a rash and a fever, something like that for a day or two, and goes away.

Uh, but this chicken pox virus attacked her heart, and that does happen very rarely, thank goodness, and it destroyed her heart. And we were told actually in the Netherlands by a cardiologist who saw her because she ended up in the hospital, and we didn't know what it was. Doctors didn't know. Finally, this cardiologist did an echocardiogram on our little baby and walked us into a room, and I knew that it was bad because his resident started crying.

I mean, just like started. And I went, "Oh my God, what's gonna go on? What's he gonna say?" And he just started out by saying, "I'm, I'm afraid that your daughter's gonna die fairly soon, and, um, her heart is completely destroyed." So I remember at that time, through my tears, and my wife of course was upset obviously, I just said, "Isn't there anything that could help, like a heart transplant or something?"

And he said, "Oh, no, no, those, those don't work, and we, we don't do those here. And really, go home. Go home as soon as you can to the States, and take her home and let her die in peace with you." And literally the next day we flew home. Um, this was supposed to be a six-month sabbatical. I think we were there for about a month.

And so w- of course, we did put her in the hospital, and it turned... Uh, she ended up being one of the early children to get a heart transplant, and it was almost like she had a brain transplant. It was amazing. She got more oxygen. She was ... You know, felt healthier. And she, at nine years old, she ended up needing another heart.

These are things, you know, when you're on the cutting edge. She really was on the cutting edge. And, you know, the one thing we were told, even if she gets a new heart, which is about a 50/50 proposition, you know, to, to even get one, um, even if she got a heart, her chances of surviving five years were less than 50%, we were told.

So you can do the stat yourself. It's 50% times 50%, so her chance of actually living to be six years old was 25%.

Erik Solbakken: Mm-hmm.

Victor Strecher: So we knew what the odds were, and in fact, we did have a discussion, should we just let her die? And, you know, I guess you might... Any, any parent can imagine that would be really, really hard to just make that call, not when she had a, a chance.

Erik Solbakken: How could you... That must have been... Like, did you have an existential crisis right there, like, just in itself, like, just going, "How do I make a decision on what- 50%. Like, how do I make a decision on, on... Like, you are then, in a sense, acting like God. You get to choose. Like, it's... And it's your child you were talking about.

The-

Victor Strecher: Yeah. Yeah. It was... We had interesting dinner table conversations, Eric. It was, um... Like, w- if we did give this to her and she died at the age of three, would it be worth it? At the age of five, would it be worth it? At the age of 10? And we decided that no matter how long she lived, if she could start establishing, um, her own agency in her life, you know, where she could make choices, if she could find friends or some sort of connections with other children, other people- Then it'd be worth it if she could feel love and attention, and she could try new things, even if she was three.

So we said, "Yeah, we've, we've gotta go for this." And she became one of the first children, you know, an early child to get a heart transplant, and that changed me. Eric, you kind of asked, like, this existential experience. It was absolutely 100% existential because what it does is shrink down a life to the bare essence.

Like, what do you want out of a life? If, if you're gonna live three years, if you're gonna live 30 years, if you're gonna live 300 years, what is it that you wanna live out of a life? Because it is a very finite thing, and it just hit us in the face. It hit me in the face existentially. We're not gonna live forever, and Marcus Aurelius once said, "Don't live as if you're gonna live 10,000 years."

You know? I, I love that. Like, make sure... And, and Buddhist monks, they, they rehearse and meditate on their own deaths- Yeah ... you know, often at 4:00 in the morning. Uh, they're, they're, like, going, "Okay, I'm gonna die." And, and, you know, the... One monk told me, "It gets worse. We, we meditate on our own decomposition." We know that we are finite here, that we're impermanent, and that impermanence hits you, and you start going, "Wow, what are we doing wasting our time, you know, worrying about what Kim Kardashian is wearing?"

You know? Yeah. Really, who gives a shit?

Erik Solbakken: Yeah.

Victor Strecher: And, and I'm sure she may be a very nice person. I just, I don't know her, and I don't care what she's wearing. What do I care about what a social influencer is, is doing when I don't relate to... You know, I, I don't care what they're buying. They probably don't care what they're buying-

as long as they're paid for it. Yeah,

Erik Solbakken: yeah. And

Victor Strecher: so it doesn't matter to me. Those things, I started cutting out the things in my life, not just Julia's life, but in my life, of things that didn't matter that much to me, and I started focusing on the things that did matter because I didn't know... You know, you start asking, "How long am I gonna live?"

It's almost like if you go, Eric, to a memorial service of somebody, and usually, anyway, I walk out feeling lighter. I don't feel heavier. I feel lighter because I feel w- And I'm usually thinking- Man, I've gotta change. I've gotta do something with my life that's a little more important than what I've been doing up to that point of the memorial service.

Does that make any sense?

Erik Solbakken: I... Yeah, totally. I, just, it's just like you have been reading my m- my mail. I read a paragraph- Mm ... one paragraph every morning from Marcus Aurelius's, uh, Meditations.

Victor Strecher: Meditations,

Erik Solbakken: yeah. So I've read the book probably four or five times, but I w- I just get up in the morning and it's one of the readings I do.

Oh. I just do one paragraph, and that's all I need for the morning just to set my right, my, my, my thinking right.

Victor Strecher: Love that.

Erik Solbakken: Um, I have a whole Viking rise ritual that I do, but I'm not getting into the details of that. Really? Oh, yeah. It's a, it's a whole process that I do every morning, and I've created around the acronym, uh, for VIKING, and I go through every stage of that.

And w- so watching this- I wanna learn

Victor Strecher: about you, about you too here ...

Erik Solbakken: Oh, yeah. Ok- okay. Well, I'll, I'll, I'll tell you about that. Cool. Um, but let me just kinda tie this in with, I remember... It's this impermanence. I remember going to a funeral once, and it was, uh, for, uh, a Norwegian couple. So we, when my parents moved here from Norway, the, my, I was in my mom's belly, so apparently I was at the wedding and no one knew, and they flew to Canada, and when they landed here they met a bunch of local Norwegians and so-

Victor Strecher: Yeah

Erik Solbakken: many, many, call it 25 years later after I was born, this Hawkun was his name, and he ended up dying and so we ended up going to the funeral. And I remember being there, and I don't know what denomination it was, but the, the guy that was proceeding over the whole thing, he was filled with energy and life.

He goes, "Oh my gosh, H- Hawkun had an amazing life. Let's celebrate the fact that he's with his Lord and Savior, but let's talk about all the wonderful things he did in his life." And I watched... I came out of there saying to my dad, I'm going, "That was the most uplifting, energizing funeral I've ever been to," 'cause normally it's solemn and quiet and boom.

Victor Strecher: Right,

Erik Solbakken: right. But I'm like, I want mine to be like that, like, where people are celebrating the fact that I lived this big wonderful life. And I remember that- A big life ... a, a big, a joyful life, and seeing that, that was the first thing that kinda clicked and I was like, "Whoa," like, why are we so morbid about the fact that we're actually gonna die?

So my daughter Isla- Yeah ... when she was young, I told her right from the beginning, I said, "What lasts forever?" She goes, "Nothing." And I said-

Victor Strecher: Whoa ...

Erik Solbakken: I said, "Nothing."

Victor Strecher: Whoa, really?

Erik Solbakken: I said, "Will I last forever?" She goes, "Nope." And I said, "Will you last forever?" She goes, "Nope." And I said, "So?" She goes- Yeah ... "Let's have some fun."

And I said, "Exactly." This is not

Victor Strecher: practice.

Erik Solbakken: This is not practice. Yeah. Right? And so for me that- But the having that, it's, it's interesting because I've had multiple wake-up calls in my life. Like, um, my alcoholism was one, like going through alcoholism and having that- Mm-hmm. Yeah ... that, that tragedy. And that's the one thing you, you wrote in the book too in, in, in terms of it's the tragic things in life that actually help you reinto- reorientate yourself to your purpose.

Yeah. And I, I resonate so much with that because that, that was like It, it, it means so much to me to go, life is finite. It's for me to experience and explore, and all... I'm more and more convinced, Victor, that I think we actually are here to experience all of it. Mm-hmm. Not the highs, the lows. We're- Yeah

we're trying to avoid pain and suffering, but the pain- Right ... and suffering for me has actually been the most rewarding. It's not like I'm running into it anymore, but I'm not running away from it.

Victor Strecher: You, you, you nailed it. You nailed it, Eric. I think you and I are on the same page totally. Uh, just not being afraid of death, not being afraid of risk, of doing something that-

Erik Solbakken: Yeah

Victor Strecher: may involve some kind of risk. We, we often just live in these cocoons. I- being in public health, I get to travel around the world a lot. I did a lot of, you know, AIDS work, for example, in Sub-Saharan Africa, and, you know, just spent a lot of time in different parts of the world. And some of the people that I run into who have the least amount of money and least resources live the biggest lives.

Erik Solbakken: Mm-hmm.

Victor Strecher: Um, they just live life to the fullest because they see other people dying. And I think, you know, it was, uh-

Erik Solbakken: Yeah ...

Victor Strecher: Steve Jobs in, in his commencement address at Stanford, he must have shocked all these, you know, very smart people when he said, "You know, death is life's change agent." Uh, and he was dying of pancreatic cancer at the time.

He said, "Death is life's change agent. It's the single best invention of life." So he is saying... You know, and, and I don't want this conversation to turn all morbid, but, you know, movies that have the hero d- actually dying and not somehow resurrecting. You know, so often- Yes. Yeah ... these movies, the person dies and then they're not really dead and somehow they shake it off and, uh, "He's alive.

Oh my God, oh, is that nice?" Because they know that it won't sell tickets if the hero literally actually dies. You know, you're going, "What? What happened?" What happened when James Bond actually died? What are they gonna do? Where's the sequel? And- Yeah ... so that's i- it's life's change agent. And my own daughter, when she was 19, um, was in nursing school at the University of Michigan.

She really wanted to be a nurse, and she wanted to give back. Uh, she was so excited to get into nursing school, and she wrote this beautiful letter on her own for admissions into nursing school saying basically, "You know, some people think what I've gone through is a miracle. I just..." Uh, and, and, and, and she said, "I just simply found purpose in my life from this, and I don't consider myself special or a miracle child or anything.

I just- have found my purpose because of this, because I don't know how long I'll be around. And sure enough, after the first semester, she, she passed away very suddenly. Uh, and we were in the Caribbean, um, and we had brought her boyfriend with her, and we brought our older daughter and her boyfriend with her.

And, you know, some people said, "Brought their boyfriends." And I said, "You know, we live life to the fullest," you know? And they were in deep love, and we said, "You know, what are we doing keeping them apart when evolutionarily, biologically, you know, they wanna be together? Let them be together." Yeah. You know, 'cause who knows?

And she passed away in the middle of the night very suddenly, and her last words, um As she was walking back from the beach where, "I'm so happy that I could die now." And I don't think she thought she was gonna die. She just said that 'cause she was very happy. And, um, so that's given me great joy. At the same time, uh, you know, great grief too because, uh, I'll always miss her.

This was 15 years ago, but I, I will certainly miss her. But a few months afterwards, um, I was pretty worried that my wife and I were gonna split up because we were starting to... Like, it just, our grief was so overwhelming for both pe- you know, for the both individuals that we were bringing each other down.

We just, the weight of the other person was so hard and we just couldn't lift them up anymore. So I, I read that, you know, 80% of couples who lose a child get a divorce. So we went to this counselor and I, you know, being the smart professor, I said, "Well, you know, 80% of couples break up after the loss of a child."

And, and the counselor was so gentle and nice. She said, "You know, Vic, um, 50% of couples break up without the loss of a child." Oh. Okay. I guess you're right. She said, she said, "But one thing that will happen, you'll find that if you start judging how the other person's grieving, oh, you're grieving too much, you're grieving too long, you're using pills, you're not, or whatever that is, you'll break up.

You'll split up. You'll divorce. So maybe what you wanna do is go on your own journeys and respect the other person's journey." And my wife, who's a sculptor and, um, gardener, she stayed in Ann Arbor, Michigan, where we live, and sculpted and gardened, and I went to Northern Michigan to Lake Michigan, where we have a cabin, and, um, I started eating and drinking myself to death.

So I started watching, you know, stupid shows. Oh, is Kim Kardashian on? Oh, let's, let's watch that.

Erik Solbakken: Yeah.

Victor Strecher: And, uh, you know, I'm, I'm drunk by, you know, 5:00, and I'm laying on the sofa sleeping by 7:00. And people were trying to help me. I was by myself, though, for over a month, and I was getting worse and worse.

Um, I'm sure you have stories to tell about something like this.

Erik Solbakken: Oh, yes.

Victor Strecher: And I just, um... People were sending me books. You know, they, they couldn't... I, I didn't want anyone... I didn't wanna see anyone. But people were sending me books, and somebody sent me Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl Which I, yeah, and-

Erik Solbakken: Yeah

Victor Strecher: I read that. And somebody sent me the poetry of Rumi, R-U-M-I, the Persian poet-

Erik Solbakken: Yes ...

Victor Strecher: um, from I believe the 13th century. And one night I had this, I, I was... And I'm not a poetry person, I just have to say that. I, you know, especially then I just didn't read poetry, but they were like letters written to me. And one of them said, "Your dreams at night have secrets to tell you.

Don't go back to sleep." And it, it goes on, but that night I had a dream that I was with my daughter, and we were rollerblading in the Netherlands. And in Maastricht, this beautiful ancient town, it's gorgeous, where we were doing sabbatical. And, um, we're on these rollerblades, and suddenly we see this gorgeous building, and it's kind of glowing.

It, it's almost, it could have been a church or a mosque or a synagogue. It was something holy though, for sure, and it was on a hill. And Julia says, "We need to go there." I said, "Okay, great. Let's go." And we get into the mosque in our roller- on our rollerblades, and then as soon as we get in to the lobby, there's this spiral staircase that goes like down deep, deep, deep into the darkness.

And she says, "We need to go there." And I said, "We're on rollerblades." And she starts floating down, and I'm floating down in my dream with her. And we get down to the bottom, and it's this enormous m- marble hall or auditorium. It's this gigantic room. And these... And my daughter in this case was nine years old in my dream, and these three women came up in these gorgeous beaut- these purple dresses.

They were just beautiful women, all three of them, in these three same dresses. And I turn to my daughter, and suddenly she was 19, and she was in the same dress. And she said, "I've gotta go." And I just went, "Oh, God." Um, I still-- This is really emotional talking about it, 'cause I don't talk about it. But I-- Suddenly she just w- walked away with them, glided away, and they all disappeared.

And I woke up, and it was 5:00 in the morning, and my My pillowcase was soaked in tears. And I started going, "I have got to go back to sleep and get her," because it was one of these hyper-vivid dreams. I, I'm guessing you might have had some of these. They're so real that you're completely involved in them.

And I then remembered Rumi's poem that your dreams at night have secrets to tell you. Don't go back to sleep. I looked outside and it was still dark. We're right on Lake Michigan, and, um, and Lake Michigan can be very rough, very difficult, not unlike where you look out. But it was like glass, and it was still dark, and it was foggy, and it was about 50 degrees outside.

It was still s- kind of springy. And I just decided to jump out of my bed. I was in boxers and T-shirt, and I just jumped into my kayak, and I just start paddling. I, I just started paddling out, like straight out, not along the shore, just straight out. It's like... And I found myself at least two miles out, and I couldn't see the shore anymore.

It was very foggy, but it was starting to lighten, and suddenly the sun came up and the fog just cleared, and almost instantly, and everything started just glowing and flickering, but it was perfectly smooth. And I had been contemplating actually paddling on to Wisconsin, which was 84 more miles, and that wouldn't have worked, of course.

No. But I didn't care at the time, and it wasn't like I was actively saying, "I'm gonna kill myself." It was just, "This is a beautiful morning. Maybe I'll just keep going." And it... That's exactly how I felt. Like, wow, you know, I'll just keep going to Wisconsin because it's just gorgeous, and it... I wasn't... death, life, anything.

I was just not thinking. And I had no life preservation on. You know, it's just like, boom, just keep going. And when the sun started coming up, I, I, I- I've said this many times in talks, but I, I cannot explain what happened to me, um, as a scientist. But I felt my daughter inside me, and I felt her essentially saying, "You've got to get over this, Dad."

And it was like, not, "You've got to get over this." It was like, "You've got to get over yourself. You've got to get over your own ego, and you've got to get over feeling sorry for yourself, or you're gonna die, and you have a choice." And that was kind of this enlightening thing, Eric. It was like, I have a choice.

I can go. I mean, here's the crossroads right there. There's the street sign, death, and there's, you know if you go back, you're gonna have to change your life, period. Mm-hmm. Of course, I'm here talking to you, so I did go back. And still in boxers and T-shirt, I didn't feel the cold, and I just pulled out a sheet of paper, and it was still, like, super early in the morning, still, you know, 6:00.

And... Oh, sorry, I'm... Somebody is at the, uh... I'm in a hotel. No problem. No problem. Somebody's at the door. Go ahead. One second, I'll continue.

Erik Solbakken: All good.

Okay, hold on. Yeah. Okay, go ahead.

Victor Strecher: Is that okay?

Erik Solbakken: Yeah, go ahead.

Victor Strecher: So I decided to come back to, uh, our cabin, and I sat down at our kitchen table, still in my boxers and T-shirt, and I just pulled out a sheet of paper and I started saying to myself, almost from the ceiling looking down on me, saying, "You've gotta fix yourself, Vic.

You're a behavioral scientist. If you can't fix yourself, what good are you anyway?" So I kinda said, "Vic, pull out a sheet of paper and write down the things that matter most to you." And I don't know why I did that, I really don't. It wasn't anything other than just some simple instinct. And I wrote down Jerri, my wife.

Um, I wrote down our daughter Rachel, older daughter. I wrote down our friends. I, you know, I wrote down a bunch of things. And then I wrote my students, and I wrote, um, my research. And so I wrote this list of about eight things, and I thought, "Wow, the university has given me time off for a whole semester, maybe two semesters."

They said, "You've lost a child. That's one of the hardest things you can go through. Take what you need." And I called them first thing in the morning then when people were there, and I called the dean's office and said, "It's so nice that you did that, but it's not the advice I need. What I need to do is go back as soon as I possibly can, and I'm gonna teach every one of my students as if they're Julia."

And that changed my life, Eric. When, when I started building... That became one of the foundations of a purpose for me. And so I started, um, taking better care of myself, for one thing, because I have hundreds of students, and if I'm gonna teach them all like my daughter, that's a lotta time and effort. So I started walking to work every day.

I started eating better. I started sleeping better. I started meditating every day. I started just thinking about things that would give me the energy that I needed to pay attention to every single student if, as much as I possibly could. And if people didn't want me to pay attention to them, I didn't, of course.

But if people, students were in need, I was there for them. And after a while, it became a running joke, 'cause my office is across from the dean's office, and the dean would walk out and he'd see, like, 10 students waiting in the hallway to, to meet with me. And I'd see every one of them. I- if it took late, you know, well past dinner, I would see everybody.

And that really was helpful for me, very helpful, and, and other parts of my life, too. It just... Suddenly my life turned Technicolor from black and white. I just started living this bigger life, and I have to thank my daughter for that

Erik Solbakken: The... Oh, there's so much to unpack there, Vic. Thank you for sharing that.

The... I r- I remember the stories. Like, the book, the... Your book impacted me so much in all the different aspects. Like, I've connected my story and my search for meaning, Viktor Frankl's book, Socrates, Aristotle, like all these things that- Right ... you were talking about. But you, you brought the book down into, like, a core usable, functional manual.

Oh, thank you. Like, it's just so powerful when you were explaining about- Where do I go here? The ex- existential crisis is being at that breaking point and then realizing you have agency over your life. That's where I was with my alcoholism.

Victor Strecher: Really?

Erik Solbakken: Like I was- Unpack

Victor Strecher: that ...

Erik Solbakken: like I was at- Can you, can you mind

Victor Strecher: talking about it?

Erik Solbakken: I, yeah, that was... So I, I, I was, I did drinking. Well, I did drinking. I did it really well. I think everybody has, I, I think the way alcohol works is that everybody has a quota system. It's everybody has a certain quota. I used mine up very early. And, um, but, but where I was when I was sitting across the table from my brother-in-law telling me what I had done the night before, what had happened, and I had actually been to AA before and tried sobriety for a couple years, then I was out drinking for four years thinking I had it figured out.

But I was so in a disillusionment state, like I was so out of it. It's like I almost popped up and came up for air. I don't know if that, if the feeling was like that for you when you said you saw the world in Technicolor. It's like when he talked to me and all of a sudden I went, "What am I doing drinking?

I'm an alcoholic." It was all of a sudden like I woke up.

Victor Strecher: Yeah.

Erik Solbakken: And it was like, you know, when they say you're born again or you're woken up? Yeah, sure. That's- Yeah ... for me, that's what it was. It was like this, "What the?" And all of a sudden now you're seeing things and you're realizing the way you were behaving was just so out of touch.

Victor Strecher: It's so true. Um, here's another thing, and I'll ask you whether you had a similar thought. After all this happened, I realized that I didn't care as much about what other people thought about me. I didn't care whether people judge me one way or another. It just didn't matter to me. I'd gone through enough.

And also, I, I felt like I'd gone through enough things that it was gonna be really, really hard to bother me now. Mm-hmm. Um, whether it's other people, what they thought. And, uh, I, I started recalling, I, I went to my 50th, um, uh, high school reunion a few years ago. I'm old. So I went to this, and I- No, you're

Erik Solbakken: older.

Victor Strecher: Okay, fine.

Erik Solbakken: You, you were never old. We're only older- Yeah ... than we were yesterday. Cool. We're never old.

Victor Strecher: All right. Thank you. But I remember this kinda sock hop in ninth grade or something, and I was really a shy person, and I wanted to dance with this girl a lot, but I was way too shy. But then my favorite, the song I really wanted to dance to came on, and it had this kind of electronica in the middle and, and it was like early, early electronica.

This is in the '60s. So, um, and I got the gumption up to ask her to dance, and then so we're dancing and I'm like, you know, dancing around doing this stuff. And, and then suddenly this electronica piece comes in in the middle like eh, eh, eh, eh, eh. I'm like, oh,

Erik Solbakken: God.

Victor Strecher: And I, like my eyes roll back, and I'm like turning and like just doing this kinda Gollum-like dance.

It was so cool. And, and I was totally in myself. And a- at the end of the song, I opened my eyes, and everyone on the dance floor was surrounding me, and the girl comes up and says, "Are you okay?" And it was kind of embarrassing for a while, 'cause I'm sure they all thought I was having an epileptic fit, Saint Vitus' Dance and...

But I was just doing my own thing. And of course, it was embarrassing for decades after that.

Erik Solbakken: Mm-hmm.

Victor Strecher: But what I realize now is that- That's how I try to live my life. I really have to dance my own dance, and, uh, if I'm totally into it, I could really care less what other people think about it. I don't care if people think I'm okay or not okay, 'cause I don't know what that means, but I feel like I'm very okay, and I'm very happy, and I'm productive, and I do a lot of research, and I have a l- you know, I give a lot of talks.

And, you know, I mean, my life is really good right now, quite honestly, and my relationship with Jeri, my wife, is wonderful. So, and, and our, our older daughter, I mean, she's incredible. She's an amazing woman with a great family. So I, I think things are very good in doing what I wanna do, in dancing my own dance.

And so one of my purposes is to help people get on the dance floor and not be these wallflowers. It strikes me, Erik, that that's what you're doing with your podcast. Am I-

Erik Solbakken: You're- ...

Victor Strecher: off base?

Erik Solbakken: Yep. No, that's... So the Viking Academy... Well, I'll kinda, I'll, I'll kind of wind back a bit. So when I was younger, I was, like, the wild kid, and I came from Norway, so they called me The Viking, and I, you know, I started to play in a heavy metal band in '80s- There you go

long, you know, curly, long- Yeah ... blonde hair. It's like- Yeah ... I looked like one of the guys from Europe and screaming The Final Countdown. It was all the '80s and big hair. And, and then, but for my, my story is that I kinda, I, I then switched over, and then I ended up becoming a CPA, which is, I've seen people ta- meet me, and they're like, "You're a what?"

And I was like, "Yeah." Yeah. I ended up becoming a CPA thinking that this is the way to sur- this is the way to be successful in life. Yeah. And I went that route. I ended up succumbing to my alcoholism, and then when I kinda came to, I was like, I, I had to redif- re-find myself, find myself, so to speak. So it's been 18 years now that I've been kind of searching for that, and it hasn't been until the last I don't know, 10 or so that I've finally gotten comfortable in my own skin, and I, I've started the Viking Academy based on going, that's who I was as a kid.

I was like, I'm picturing you on the dance floor doing your Gollum dance and just totally immersed in it, and then everybody looking at you and going, "Whoa, are you okay?" And then part of us, I think, shrinks and, and hides from ourselves as children. And, and I think who we are is already baked in when we come into this life, and then we start expressing it, and then it gets pushed down, and then we get to find it again.

And that's been my experience is like I'm in that re- discovery phase. Wow. And so the whole purpose of the Viking Aca- Academy, to, to come back to your answer, to your question, is that I believe every person was put on the planet for a reason, but we're the only species that doesn't know why we're here, which ties into what you said before.

It's like we, we're here... But I think that's the adventure. It's go explore and figure out who you are, what you're here, and just-

Victor Strecher: That's a great line you bring up, you know? It reminds me of my Jack Russell Terrier, my dog, Uncle Lenny.

Erik Solbakken: Yeah.

Victor Strecher: He knows exactly what he is. Yeah. He knows exactly. It's my job. You know, even though we live on a block with houses, he goes, "This block is my farm."

Erik Solbakken: Mm-hmm. "

Victor Strecher: And my purpose is to eliminate this farm from all vermin."

Erik Solbakken: Mm-hmm.

Victor Strecher: Period. Yeah. And as soon as you realize that and let him do that, he's the happiest dog, and most obedient, and cheerful, friendly dog. You're not f- pushing him to do something that he's not. He's... That's his purpose, and he n- he was born knowing it.

D- you bring up such an important point, that maybe we are the only creatures on the planet who don't know what we're here for. And, and, but then the joy is trying to figure that out, right?

Erik Solbakken: That's the gift. See, this is... So for me, Victor, like I... Like I've started up multiple different businesses, and I'm a business coach.

I'm al- still a CPA, but I'm a r- I call myself a recovered CPA, and people in the know understand what that means. It's a double entendre, a recovered CPA. Um- Yeah.

Victor Strecher: My, my Norwegian mom is a CPA, by the way. Yeah. Oh, there- She's 94 now, but she still does my brother's taxes.

Erik Solbakken: Oh, well, there you go. You know, I haven't done a tax return in over 12 years, and so I'm recovered from that, right?

I have pe- I have accountants doing my stuff for me now. But it's, it's that- I, I started the Viking Academy and I'm a businessman and a business idea. Like, I took psychology in university, so I've got a psychology and economics degree. And then for the last 18 years, it's been more of a philosophical dive into seeking a higher power through the 12 steps- Sure

and reading all these different books. But there's been almost a... It's like a convergence or something that's come together for me when it was like, "It's time to start the Viking Academy." I'm like, "Okay, what is it?" And it was just a voice in my head just said, "Just start." And I'm like, "Well, what do I do first?"

They said, "Start the podcast." And I said, "Do I do a membership site?" They're like, "Yeah, but don't worry about monetizing it." Oh. So I've just been living the Erik Viking that I've always been, and I'm feeling more- Wow ... and more in my own skin. But I'm still peeling the layers away from the judgment piece, Vic.

Like, I haven't been able- Yeah ... to completely shed that part.

Victor Strecher: Mm. Mm-hmm.

Erik Solbakken: But I'm getting more and more in tune with it, and it's... I think you hit this point that is just, for me, the more suff- pain and suffering that I go through, the more... The higher the intensity of the pain and suffering though, of my life, the more I'm willing to not worry about how other, other people think about me.

And it's like, you know what? I've been through so much worse. Like you said, it's like I don't care about what Kim Kardashian says anymore- Yeah ... because I've almost died from alcoholism. I lost one of my first businesses. I lost my first marriage. I just, the... Like, you start going through those things, but nothing really hits it like death.

It's living with death is, I think, the most powerful life there is, and there's a, there's a, there's, um, there's a living ethos with the Viking Academy. Think of the Vikings. The... So and if anybody's watching the video, they can see in the background I got an ax, I got a shield, and I've got- Yeah ... what I call my unique ability statement.

Those things remind me of my body, mind, and spirit, okay? Yeah. So this is my mind, there's my body, and there's my spirit. The Vikings were not afraid to die.

Victor Strecher: Right.

Erik Solbakken: They would run into battle with the sword going to Valhall- They were, they were welcoming being slaughtered in battle because when they did, they felt they would go to Valhalla.

So they, because they were not afraid of death, they were living more fully. And so for me- Yeah ... I'm trying to em- embrace and embody that by showing people, being an example of who you can be without telling them exactly who to be. So I wanna be a living example of an active explorer of my own life, and I'm coming up with a philosophy of self-discovery is how I'm wrapping it in a blanket.

It's a philosophy of self-discovery wrapped in a Viking blanket. And so- Love it ... that's, that's what I'm trying to-

Victor Strecher: I love

Erik Solbakken: it ... bring to the world. But I'm trying to do it through me living it, if that makes sense.

Victor Strecher: When, when you talk about this, um, I'm, I'm thinking about similarities to the sort of things I do.

Are you Focused on one particular transition into retirement, into older age, into, uh, you know, is this relevant to college students, to work life? I, I'd say all of those. It's- But are, are you focused on one or two in particular?

Erik Solbakken: No, and that's the interesting thing, Vic, is like especially being in the business world, so I'm a, I'm a business coach as well, so I do, I coach entrepreneurs.

Yeah. That's my, that's my jam. But it's with psy- like with psychology as well and business acumen. Yeah. I've, I've ... So I'm doing that, but the Viking Academy hasn't had a, a target niche, so to speak. It's like I'm not- Yeah ... serving these people here or these people there. I'm just, like I said, I'm just living, Eric.

And, and the more I talk on these podcasts- Yeah ... like I'm not hiding who I am anymore. Like I'll talk openly about my alcoholism. I'll talk about the fact that I'm a drummer and lead singer in a heavy metal band, which I love, by the way. That's my, that's fun. That's fun. And, and the psychology in all of it, I'm just, it's more of an expression of me.

And I'm- Yeah ... hoping that it becomes an example for others to go, "Hey, I wonder what makes me tick." I, so I wanna- Yeah ... be an example of who people can become without telling them who to become, if that makes sense.

Victor Strecher: Yeah. It, it's so funny you say that because, you know, I wrote this book, and I wrote a graphic novel as well, and I've got a business called Kumanu, and we have this app called Purposeful.

And, you know, everybody, al- especially these business types always ask me, "So who's your market?"

Erik Solbakken: Yes.

Victor Strecher: And I like to say human beings.

Erik Solbakken: Mm-hmm.

Victor Strecher: You know? A- anyone who goes through a transition, anyone who needs a Hallmark card. When they graduate from high school, Hallmark card time. When they, you know, find a new job, Hallmark card time.

They may- maybe get married, have kids, uh, get a divorce, lose a job. Lose a loved one, get sick, all those times, retire. Any time you need a Hallmark card, transitions are times when you need to be thinking and maybe, um, uh, revise your purpose and direction a little bit in your life. But what is deeper down in you, I think, what's underneath all of this is your identity, who you are, what you value.

And that's something I've been... You were asking me, you know, what am I working on now? I'm working a lot on, on trying to find, trying to help people find who they are. Um, and so I have this, this free app that, that I built called the Values Identity Constellation, or the VIC. And with the VIC, you're able to identify through some questions, like just what kind of pattern, based on a pattern that shows up, like what type of person you might be.

Erik Solbakken: Mm.

Victor Strecher: And then I can say, "You remind me of," you know, Nelson Mandela or Oprah Winfrey or whoever, and in the app itself. And then it has a 360, and you're able to, like, send this out to other people and say, "What do you think I am?" And, and I think all of that is important to just think more about, what are the things that matter?

Am I a giver? Am I an achiever? Am I a guardian? Um, am I an adventurer? Mm. Am I a self-transcender, you know, like a steward for other people I've never met? Um, am I a traditionalist? What, what are the kinds of, uh, dimensions of core values that... What matters to me a lot? And then from that, what are the strengths that I need?

Like, do I need to be kind? Do I need to be a good listener? Do I need to be inspiring? Do I need to be very thoughtful? And, you know, what does my life demand of me? And then I try to help people do that. And then from all of that, then we're able to better manage our emotions. We're better able to make changes in our lives.

And, you know, when I see people who have changed, especially from addictions- Um, you know, at the, at the substrate of an, an Alcoholics Anonymous or something, it's often, you know, learning that you're helpless and can't do this without God or, or AA or whatever. But at the same time, I want to almost recast that a little bit because I think what happens at that rock bottom is starting to say, "Who am I as a human?"

And let's rebuild that who I am, and from that, figure out what are the strengths that I need and f- as opposed to top-down, like I can give you Antabuse, I can give you these drugs or whatever. That's like sprinkling something on the top of behaviors. That may work for a little while, but ultimately it's your root system that needs some consideration, understanding, maybe some modification.

Does that make sense to you?

Erik Solbakken: Yeah, yeah. The, s- so the... I think it comes back down to the agency. You... I love the fact that you start, in your book, you talk about that man's search for m- That where everyone's tr- the pursuit of happiness. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Victor Strecher: Yeah, yeah.

Erik Solbakken: But it's... No, it's life, liberty, and the pursuit of agency, right?

Yeah. Yeah. That's really what we're talking about. It's, it's a- knowing that you actually have control and you have ownership of your experience, that agency, right? That ownership. But from my experience, and, and this is where- And this is a bit of a, like a goose bump moment, okay? I think mine is finding the fact that through my surrender to my disease- Uh-huh

and surrendering to the higher power, whatever that is. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And this is the wonderful thing about AA, and I love that, is that they don't... It's not religious, but it's very- Right ... spiritual.

Victor Strecher: Right.

Erik Solbakken: But surrendering to a higher power and looking for your higher power, I've been searching for my higher power for the last 18 and a half years, coming on 19 years in December.

Victor Strecher: Mm-hmm.

Erik Solbakken: And I've come to understand that I've been searching for a higher power when I realized the person that I've been searching for is me.

Victor Strecher: I- I was just gonna say, your higher power is you.

Erik Solbakken: It, it is me. Yeah. But it is not me in the, in the physical s- three-dimensional space. It's a higher self, and so I call it the soul self, and it's my...

It's, it's me. It's what my soul has come here to experience through me. Yeah. And so it... There's a, there's... And, you know, it, you wrote about it a lot in the book too in terms of transcendence and meditation and realizing that attachment... And the Buddha talks about this, that life is suffering because it's attachment to things.

It's the egoic self that causes the pain and suffering, but once you transcend that, you actually can see that life is not, not... It's not happening f- to you. It's happening for you. But I think there's a higher level of understanding that it's happening through you, and so you get this detachment from the self.

So it's that higher self, but it's your soul. And here's where the... This is a cool story. I'm driving down the road, and my daughter Isla, she's 13, and all of a sudden she said to me, she goes, "Dad, you know what you're doing in the Viking Academy?" And I said, "Yeah." She goes, "It's kinda like you're help- helping people get their soul back into their lives."

She goes, "And that's our last name, Solbakken." And I went, "Whoa." I went, "That is it." Like, it's bringing your soul back into your life, so... And realizing that you've been- Soul

Victor Strecher: back in ...

Erik Solbakken: Solbakken, right? And I'm like, "Holy crap, kid." And she's like... And it was like literally we'd all, all of us were kind of went, "Whoa" at the same time.

But I'm realizing that... So what we're talking about is, and I, and I love what you've said, it's not this top-down, there's this damning God, or there's here's the medication and it's outside of you. It is you, but not you that you think you are. It's there's a higher self that is you, so seeking a higher power is actually seeking your soul and finding that soul that wants to express itself through you, and that is ultimate agency.

Victor Strecher: That's really interesting. It, it's... As you were talking about that, I was thinking about what's on my smartphone, and when I look at my smartphone, I have my granddaughter on it.

Erik Solbakken: Mm.

Victor Strecher: So that's my granddaughter- Great ... Madeline Julia, and so she's special. But I love to ask people what's on your smartphone, because it often indicates something that matters a lot to them.

Um-

Erik Solbakken: Here, I'll show you mine ... yeah, what's- It's the Viking Academy rune that I created

Victor Strecher: Y- you see? Isn't that cool? There- Because that matters Yeah ... and that's a big part of who you are. Yeah. There's a person fairly recently who showed me his, and it was a picture of him. And I said "A picture of you?" And I thought, "Wow, that's...

Is that narcissistic or what?" And, and he said, "Because I look at that and say, 'I'm my own coach.' I am... I have to... I'm answering to me." And every time I look at that... And, you know, the average person opens their phone 67 times a day.

Erik Solbakken: Ah.

Victor Strecher: Younger people, over 100 times a day. Mm. So it... What... It's what we might call values affirmation.

You're af- Mm ... affirming something that matters, and every single day you're continuing to affirm something that's important to you. And he's literally looking at himself going, "Okay, you're my coach. Am I doing the right thing?" I, I... When you were talking, I was reminded of that person. I thought it was really an amazing thing to do and, and to talk- Yeah

about in that way.

Erik Solbakken: But, and it... My experience has been it's a delicate balance of- Understanding that the self is not the little self. It's the e- be careful when the ego has taken control. And that's just like what your daughter said to you, she says, "Dad, you need to let go of yourself. You need to see yourself- Yeah

from a higher vantage point." Yeah. In other words, align yourself with your soul self so that- Yeah ... you can get out of this egoic feeling sorry for- Yeah ... the smaller self. Because that, you know, that was the... That's the illusion that you are here. But I still... And there's a higher... I have a higher thinking on this too.

I think that is what you came to experience. You came here to experience your daughter going through all that. You came here to experience all this. You came to experience you going out on the lake and having that moment.

Victor Strecher: So that- So

Erik Solbakken: that ... so

Victor Strecher: finish the sentence. So that-

Erik Solbakken: So that ... I,

Victor Strecher: you know, I can help my students.

Yeah. I can help other people. Yeah. You know, I, I, I teach a course on finding purpose, and this week on Monday I was showing them a study that was done at the University of North Carolina by this Google scholar. She's amazing, Eva Telzer. And she took college students and first gave them a depression screener to just see, you know, whether people were depressed and how much, that sort of thing.

And then put them all into MRI, a magnetic resonance imaging, you know, clamping their heads down, putting them into I've done

Erik Solbakken: a bunch of those myself, yeah

Victor Strecher: Okay, good. And then, um, asking them to think about, d- saying, "You've got a certain amount of money. Think about how you would spend that for other people."

And then at a different time while they're in MRI, and they randomize this, you know, sometimes it's first, sometimes it's second, "Here's some money. Think about how you'd spend it on you." And they're focused on a reward center in the brain called the ventral striatum, which is something that, you know, all animals have this reward center.

And, you know, if we hear the ice cream truck going around the corner and we're little kids, ding, ding, ding, ding, you know, that ventral striatum is going boom, boom, boom. You know? So it's, it's a really good indicator of whether something is a reward to you. And so sure enough, some people were heavily rewarded, got more activation in that brain region when thinking about how they'd spend it on themselves, and other people got really rewarded when thinking about how they'd spend it on other people.

Now, brains don't lie in that sense. They can't say, "Oh, I'm really, you know, this." The brain is telling us, the researchers, like, "Here's who you are." They followed people for a year, and the ones who were activated when spending it on somebody else were far less depressed a year later versus the people- Yes

who were thinking about spending it on themselves. So it's almost the definition of self-transcendence. I'm not thinking about me, I'm thinking about other people, and that concentric circle. So many people say, "Oh, I, I, you know, I care about other people. I care about my family." Well, everyone cares about their family, but how about people you've never met?

How about that, that person on the street who was beaten up and robbed and unclothed, and that Samaritan walks by after two or three other people walk by and ignore them and say, "You know, let me put you on my donkey, and I'm gonna take you over to a hotel, and I'll cover your hotel dude." Mm. "Let me help out."

Who does that now? Who thinks about helping- Mm ... people they've never met or even they don't like? That, that's something that we don't think about as much

Erik Solbakken: th- this reminds me of, um, you know John Vervaeke? Does The Meaning Crisis. No. He's a, he's a professor in Canada. Um- Okay ... it, it's the meaning crisis, so he wrote- Mm-hmm

about the meaning crisis. And I've read this more and more about this, that we have a meaning crisis, and we've lost our, our-

Victor Strecher: Yeah ...

Erik Solbakken: our, we've lost our humanity in, in, in one another because of the narcissistic, egoic me, me, me. Yeah. And that's what I meant about this there's a ba- delicate balance with going, I am the center of my universe, but it's not the me at the smallest sense.

It's the higher, it's the higher me.

Victor Strecher: Yeah. Yeah.

Erik Solbakken: Right?

Victor Strecher: And

Erik Solbakken: you're, you're- That's, that's doing that, right? So, and

Victor Strecher: but- You articulate it so well, actually. And, and going back to AA, the way you framed it, it really makes a lot of sense.

Erik Solbakken: Yeah. There's, there's another thing I would... I, I wanna run this one by you. As I've been saying this, it's, it's been in my thinking a lot lately.

It's like have TLC with your ELC So you have your TLC, your tender loving care. Everybody knows what that... And they're like, "But what's your ELC?" And I said, "I think your ELC is what your... It's your soul purpose." It's like, what is your soul here to do? And I believe we're here to experience, learn, and contribute.

Like, that's my ELC. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, so I'm here having an experience.

Victor Strecher: Mm-hmm.

Erik Solbakken: And I'm learning. Yeah. But from that experience and learning, what am I contributing? Yeah. And I listen to your storyline, and who you are yells so loudly I can't hear a word you're saying. That's like paraphrasing Emerson, right?

Victor Strecher: No, I know.

Erik Solbakken: It's... And I put it... It's on my website. I put that down. Like, who you are is yelling so loudly I can't hear a word you're saying. There's this experience that you've had, the learning from it, and now your contribution. And it's that the learning... The experiencing and the learning is, oh my gosh, look at all this experience and learning that I get for myself so I can now contribute to life.

It's you're here to actually be part of the unfolding of the creator and, and that's why... And like, I have a note on my wall here. I got lots of them, by the way. I've got personality profiles and all that stuff to, you know, know thyself, Socrates. But creativity is intelligence having fun. I think that's where you're in the act of creating when you're contributing to life.

Like, that's... I th- and what you're saying there is this is where the true juice is in life- Yeah ... is knowing that your personal experience and your learning that you're getting individually is putting you in a position to contribute to the entire unfolding of life. And that, to me- Yeah ... I don't know about you, but that energizes the hell out of me.

Like, I love being on stage and performing, so I'm experiencing learning, and then I get- Yeah ... to contribute. That's what lights me up. But on the absolute m- like, the tiniest level to the largest level, and it's like whatever my stage is, I wanna be on it and doing my contribution to it, whatever that is.

Victor Strecher: I love that.

I love, I love how you're talking about this. Um- You know, I

Erik Solbakken: think everyone has it, the Vic- No ... that's the thing though. I think we're all part of it.

Victor Strecher: I, I do too, and I think it's been stifled in most people. Yeah. I see it stifled by lots of things. You know, I mean, just m- maybe your parents saying, "You're not supposed to do that.

You're not... You know, you're supposed to conform." But I think part of this means that you cannot care about conforming. You can't care about what other people think because you have to find this yourself.

Erik Solbakken: Yeah.

Victor Strecher: You have to find your own purpose and direction. Find out who you are, and that is annealed. It's created like that s- ax you have back there based on tragedy, beautiful experiences, family, and it shouldn't be influenced by social influencers, you know, in my mind.

And yet it is more and more.

Erik Solbakken: Yeah. It, it is, and but here's the... Here's where I have a bit of a flip-flop or I'm not sure if I'm having cognitive dissonance on this one, but you can help me out, I'm sure, is that if I did not experience conforming myself to what I thought society want me, wanted me to be-

Victor Strecher: Yeah

Erik Solbakken: I wouldn't have experienced breaking free from that to be who I'm actually here to be.

Victor Strecher: Yeah. You're, you're at a neat stage. Yeah. Do you- That's cool ...

Erik Solbakken: do you know what I mean? So, like I- I do. I do ... look at that, and I, and I see it also with my daughter and, and I like... 'Cause my, my wife is like... Erin will be like, "Oh, I don't want her to experience that."

I'm like, "Why?" "'Cause if she doesn't experience that, she can't experience that." It's like the, you know- Yeah ... like the Finding Nemo when there, there's- Yeah, yeah ... that movie and there's Finding Nemo, and they're, they're having a conversation and, and Dory said... And Nemo's dad goes, "But I don't want anything to happen to him."

And she goes, "Well, that's weird." And Dory goes, "Well, that's weird, 'cause nothing happens to him. Nothing will ever happen to him." Like... Right? Yeah. Like-

Victor Strecher: True ...

Erik Solbakken: so it's, it's this paradoxical conforming to other people's so- society's norms to being what they think you should be instead of being who you are is actually part of the journey.

Victor Strecher: Yeah, it can be. Yeah

Erik Solbakken: It can be. But it's interesting to see as a human race is if we are, we are evolving beyond that now. 'Cause I see this growth and evolving, it's like we're now to the point we're saying, "Well, don't conform, don't conform, but don't stand out." Right? At the same time. Well,

Victor Strecher: what's gonna happen now in the future- Yeah

let, let's talk about- Yeah ... AI just for a second.

Erik Solbakken: Yeah. I-

Victor Strecher: Because AI, I, I believe that artificial intelligence is going to change our society.

Erik Solbakken: Mm.

Victor Strecher: And it may kill us all. That's a possibility. That's a distinct possibility. It, it will, and already is, taking many jobs away-

Erik Solbakken: Mm-hmm ...

Victor Strecher: including jobs like, you know, it'll, it'll take a job like mine, like being a professor, you know, away.

Ultimately, it'll take a lot of knowledge jobs away. And so, and certainly as robotics and AI robotics evolve, it'll take a lot of everybody's jobs away. So what happens then to society? First of all, I think it's more important than ever to know who we are and to have purpose so that we use AI as a force multiplier to those purposes.

So I can build an app now that helps people find out who they are called the VIC, the Values Identity Constellation, and I can make a beautiful app and I include a 360 and I can code it in English, and I can do it over the weekend, and it would've cost a half million dollars to build just three years ago.

So that's stunning to me. And I'm... So I can use AI as a force multiplier, and it's super important to know who you are, otherwise AI will tell you who you are- Mm-hmm ... and will lead you by the nose, um, to whatever its ends are. And I'm very worried, in fact, more than ever I'm concerned that our, our world is becoming less and less purposeful.

And in doing so, they will indeed be enslaved, whether they're formally enslaved and they're- Mm ... you know, mining iron ore to make paperclips because AI thinks you should make paperclips, or whether it's just simply, you know, I don't know who I am, so I'm asking AI who I am and what's my purpose. And that's one of the leading questions asked of AI now, which just scares the shit out of me.

Erik Solbakken: We're completely in alignment here. Like, I, I am so convinced that, again, come back to my th- I believe we're all put here for a reason, but we're the only species that doesn't know why we're here, so we're in a constant state of searching, but that's the fun and the excitement of it W- we can use... It- AI is gonna require us to be- become even more human.

We either become even more human, and then we can balance it out

Victor Strecher: We have that opportunity

Erik Solbakken: now. We have that huge opportunity to balance that out. If we could. We could become more human. We can become more authentic, more of what we're here to express, or we can get lost in the matrix, right? Or, you know, you've got- Yes.

Yes ... Skynet- Yes ... the Matrix. Yeah, right. I mean, they're all- Yeah ... they're... it's all came up from our in- ideas- Yeah ... and our, and our creativity and imagination, which then can be harnessed by the AI to then make it real, right? From that perspective. Yeah. The interesting thing that... What I love what you're doing though, Vic, is, like, you've created this app.

I was just actually working with a client. I was doing one-on-one with them, and I said, "You know all these... the person... So you got the Kolbe, the PRINT, the Str- Clifton StrengthsFinder, Working Genius."

Victor Strecher: Sure,

Erik Solbakken: right. There's these perso- I call personality profilings or whatever- Right, yeah ... help you understand about yourself.

And I said, "Take those, put them together in the AI to work with it to... for you to explore." And it... What it can do is it can take much more information and knowledge and synthesize it for you, but work with it to figure out... to help you determine w- who you are and what your unique ability truly is. And I think there's that force multiplier where I wanna create- Yeah

the Viking Academy, like the world's greatest resource platform for self-discovery, which at the base of it is- Awesome ... is, like, and I want your a- um, so I'm gonna be putting a link to your app in the Viking Academy- Oh, great. Yeah ... and it's free. So people have access to that. Yeah. I wanna be able to go, "Hey, go check this out," because at the baseline of it is a fundamental, which is right online with your book and what you're doing, Vic, and I love everything, is that it's you have purpose.

Every person has purpose. They have a- all have a reason for being here. If we can reframe our thinking to come from that baseline, now it becomes a dis- an exploration and a discovery into-

Victor Strecher: Yeah ...

Erik Solbakken: what we're here to experience, learn, and contribute to the world.

Victor Strecher: Yeah. Yeah, very much. Very much.

Erik Solbakken: And s- so you're thinking...

Just... I just wanna tie this back into, so from the day that you wrote this book to today, the biggest... what would be the biggest- What has changed and what has ex- what has reinforced in your own thinking from the day from when you wrote the book to where you are right now? And you, you've talked a little bit about the AI, and I think that sounds like there's part of it there.

Victor Strecher: Yeah. Well, the research that I've done and other people have done around the world, um, has almo- it, it's done almost nothing but reinforce my thoughts that having a strong transcending purpose is good for you. So we've been able... I've been lucky enough to be able to work with amazing researchers from UCLA and Harvard and University of British Columbia, by the way.

Amazing. Eric Kim, great guy. Um, looking at things like their epigenetic clocks. So we can literally look at people who are purposeful versus not purposeful- Hmm ... and we can look at this layer that layers on top of your DNA. Your DNA is hard to change. It doesn't really change except for the, you know, random mutation.

But your epigenome actually is this layer that we didn't learn about in high school or college even, and it helps ex- it, it basically can inhibit or amplify expression of different proteins from your DNA, and it can change. So it changes with experiences that you've had. So if you've had a lot of trauma, your epigenetic clock, which by the way, some parts are inheritable, which no one ever thought you can inherit something that's environmental.

Well, you can. So if you've had some horrible experiences, many of those things might be inheritable through your epigenome, and these clocks are being built right now that can pretty carefully and on an individual basis predict everything from life expectancy to Alzheimer's and a number of other things.

Uh, and they're not perfect by any means, but the, it's the expression of these proteins and the patterning of those is something that I've looked at pretty carefully lately, and people who have more purpose have longer clocks, longer biological clocks. So that's one thing that we've found. People with stronger purpose manage their emotions better, and when you unpack that, the emo- the coping strategies they use, the purposeful coping strategies are things like, "I know this won't last forever.

Um, I can see a silver lining to this. I know how to explore Like through a walk in nature and know that I'm small in this bigger picture, and my problems are not all that big. Things like that, those are purposeful coping strategies. Whereas drinking alcohol is a n- it's negatively correlated with having a purpose.

And it turns out these purposeful coping strategies are correlated with much better emotional regulation, your ability to manage your emotions so that you don't get super high or super low. You're able to manage your emotions and regulate, and that's really important for everything from athletes and sports.

Like I just shot three straight three-point shots. Am I, you know, in basketball, am I the world's greatest basketball player? No. And because I'll miss three straight, and then I'm also not the worst basketball player. How do you manage those emotions? That's something that's related to purpose. So we're finding that, and that's really supporting, um, what we're doing.

We're seeing purpose in sports. We're seeing purpose in, um, for soldiers coming back from the Gulf War. If they can't repurpose their life, they're far more likely to, um, to end up with suicidal ideation or actual suicide, unfortunately, or PTSD. We see the people who are retired and can't repurpose their lives, especially big shots in business, and then suddenly they can't repurpose-

Erik Solbakken: Yeah

Victor Strecher: they're roughly 1.5 to two times more likely to develop Alzheimer's disease over seven years. So if purpose were a pill, it would be like this unbelievable, you know, multi-billion dollar drug company, you know, selling this, but it's free. You know, you can find purpose. Um, we do have an app. I built an app that is...

You do pay for. It's pretty nominal, but you do pay for it, and it not only helps you find purpose through your identity and through your core values and your best self characteristics, but also then helps you become purposeful. And that's something I've really started thinking about more because a lot of people can say, "Well, I have a purpose in my life or a direction or an orientation," but they don't have the energy, this precious resource that we have, this energy to be able to align with that purpose on a regular basis.

I may say that I wanna teach all my students as if they're my own daughter, but if I have 200 students, which I do, you know, I have 200 Julias suddenly. Now what... How do I get the energy? So I-- We need to think about- Understanding what strengths we need, and then building on those strengths, and then developing behaviors that are consistent with energizing those strengths.

And that's, that's what I do now. And that's, um, that's kind of an advance from when I had started thinking about my book.

Erik Solbakken: That's so cool, 'cause it's... Purpose is like a noun. Purposeful is almost like a verb.

Victor Strecher: It is. It is.

Erik Solbakken: Yes. You get to your verb or you're actually in- How do I become purposeful? It's purpose in action.

Like-

Victor Strecher: Yeah.

Erik Solbakken: Yeah.

Victor Strecher: Yeah. And in my book, you know, Life on Purpose, I... The last third or so I wrote about what I called SPACE. Yes. Sleep, presence, activity, creativity, and eating. All five have been shown to give you more energy. I've added one, SPACES, social. You need to be social, too. Um-

Erik Solbakken: Oh, okay, so we've got a new...

Okay, this... I'm glad you brought this up- Yeah ... Vic, 'cause I was, like, going, I cannot walk away from this, this inter- with this podcast without talking about space. Yeah. And so SPACES is, the last one is social.

Victor Strecher: Yeah, um, because that's been shown to give you more energy and vitality and, and that's such an obvious thing.

That's a duh thing, but it is important to get out, um, even for us Norwegians who would rather- ... kind of stay at home and drink- Yeah ... you know, aquavit. Yeah. It's probably good to, uh, to get out and be social.

Erik Solbakken: Well, they are social and it's, it's... I like... And I'm assuming the S on social is not social media.

You're talking actually physically heart-to-heart social. That's, to me- You got it. Getting out ... there's a big difference between being, you know, even- Yeah. This is great. I love this because we can interact from distances- Yeah, yeah ... and, you know? But like I said, next time you-

Victor Strecher: It's not interacting. Yeah.

Erik Solbakken: Next time you come to Victoria, though, we'll do the podcast here live.

We can do that. Um-

Victor Strecher: And then I'm gonna go out and watch you drum and your, your metal band.

Erik Solbakken: Oh, it's so... It's the most beautiful thing you've ever seen. It's so much fun. There, there's just... You know, you got Ozzy, Metallica, Van Halen. It's just, it's- Yeah. But that's being purposeful, right? That's, like, purpose in action- Yeah

is, is contri- For me, this is what this contribution is to, to life, and I think every... And, and that's the thing I'm trying to embody, is going I wanna just- I don't want people to be like Eric, but I want them to feel like they can be themselves. And then just reframing that and being like, "What am, what am I here for?"

It becomes so much more personal and energizing. Like, it's just-

Victor Strecher: Can we shift this to religion for a second?

Erik Solbakken: Yeah, please

Victor Strecher: do. Are you a religious person?

Erik Solbakken: No. But I just finished- I'm not, I'm not

Victor Strecher: either ...

Erik Solbakken: I just, I just finished reading an incredible book, dude. It was called The World- The 12 World's Lar- Greatest Religions.

Victor Strecher: Yeah.

Erik Solbakken: Um, and it goes through all the 12 and it, and you, and I've, I studied up on the whole thing. It's, it's a- Yeah ... good sized book. Absolutely fascinating. But realizing how they're all interrelated to one another, and they've all morphed- Yes ... and changed based on- Yeah ... society and the sales pitch and what needed to come in.

Victor Strecher: Yeah.

Erik Solbakken: Like, I've read the biography of Muhammad as well, so I understood how- Mm-hmm ... Islam actually came to be, but it's actually- Yeah ... Zoro tantrism is, is the original.

Victor Strecher: Right.

Erik Solbakken: Right. So, so I've- Yeah ... done some research, quite a bit of research on that, but I'm not religious.

Victor Strecher: Yeah. I, I was brought up religious, you know, with my mom, you know, this Lutheran kind of thing.

Erik Solbakken: Yes.

Victor Strecher: And, uh, it I, you know, it, it didn't work for me. I am a fierce agnostic, and a agnostic means ... It was, you know, long time ago this was- Yeah ... created, in the 1800s, this word. Agnostic means I don't know. And, you know, I, a lot of people think that that's a wimpy form of atheism, and it's not at all. To me, it's the strongest thing that I could say because I don't feel I have the instrumentation to understand what that thing is that is driving us.

Erik Solbakken: Yes.

Victor Strecher: But I do know something, you know, something is there, but I don't understand it, I can't understand it, and I accept that fact. But I also do know that whether there is a god or not, and I'm sure some people listening or watching this will go, "There is a god," you know, whatever. That's fine. I don't, I don't care.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I'm, I'm good with that. Yeah. All major religions have the, are very transcending. They're s- you know, in, in their best selves, they're self-transcending- Yes ... and have very strong purposes. And religious people, on average, tend to be more purposeful than non-religious. But I believe that I can be an agnostic, a fierce agnostic, and say, "I don't know, but I also believe in self-transcendence.

I believe that we should be making the world a better place." Yeah. I interviewed Jeff Daniels, the actor, recently, 'cause I have a purpose cast for the AARP, or American Association of Retired Persons. Yeah. And Jeff Daniels said at the end, he said, "Well, you know, I was a Boy Scout when I was a kid, and we're always taught to leave the campground better than how you went into it, and that's how I've tried to live my life and how I live my life now."

And he's created these amazing local theaters and, you know, amazing things. He's a very transcending person. So I really believe in that, and I don't know if you need to believe in a, or have a particular religion to believe in that. But it's also different than being an atheist, 'cause I think that's- Oh ... a belief.

An atheist will go, "It's not a belief. It's not ... " But it's a belief by definition 'cause you believe there is no God. Yeah. And I'm just going, "I don't know."

Erik Solbakken: Yeah.

Victor Strecher: You know? I just don't know. And in a way, I don't care, because I can't f- I can't figure out ... And the more physics figures out and cosmology figures out how little we are

You know, every ... Carl Sagan said, "As astrophysicists learn more and more, we become demoted more and more." You know? Yeah. Yeah. We suffer from a serious demotion- Yeah ... you know, in terms of our ego, and that's true. And I, I'm fine with that. We're tiny. Let's just make a little dent.

Erik Solbakken: This, this is- Do you ever heard the Dalai Lama?

They'll ask the Dalai Lama a question, and he always starts it with, "Well, I don't know." And then he then f- what follows I don't know is some- Yeah ... profound prolific- Yeah ... diatribe, and you listen to it and you go, "Oh my gosh, that's changed my world." But he starts with I don't know, and then he says some amazing stuff.

Do you ever, do, have you ever heard of the fella Krishnamurti? No. Krishnamurti was, was supposed to be the next Messiah, uh, in- Okay. Mm-hmm ... he died in the early '70s I think, around when I was born. But he's on YouTube. You should... It's, he's quite something to listen to. But he's, he was like basically a, a teacher, a spiritual teacher, but he says- Sure

and every one of... and when he brought everybody there, he goes, "Do not believe or disbelieve a single thing I say." He said-

Victor Strecher: Wow ... "

Erik Solbakken: Do not believe or disbelieve because the minute you believe or disbelieve, you've lost the ability to find out the truth." And so what- Wow ... you're talking about of being agnostic is saying, "I don't know."

And I think we could wrap it even more into the Viking Academy blanket is I'm gonna go explore. Like I wanna- Yeah ... go explore. And so for me, it's like I've been seeking a higher power through the AA framework, and the more I seek the higher power, the more I realize I, I'm seeking myself somehow that's a higher self that when I connect to it, it actually guides me, but I haven't s- and I jokingly say it's Allah, Buddha, Brahma, baby Jesus.

It doesn't matter what I call it.

Victor Strecher: Right.

Erik Solbakken: But it, but I don't still, I can't grasp or comprehend what it is, but when I'm in the act of seeking, and this is the thing with AA it's different. Says, "God could and would if he were sought, not if he was found." So it's the- Hmm ... a higher power can and will help you if you seek it.

Victor Strecher: Hmm.

Erik Solbakken: But it doesn't mean you find it. It doesn't mean you define it. That's interesting. Yeah. It doesn't mean... Like, it's an act of seeking, and so this act of looking and seeking means I don't know, which because if you- Yeah ... don't know you have to s- look for it. 'Cause if you already know, then you're not gonna look for it.

So i- it's agnoc- it's actually agnostic at its core.

Victor Strecher: Mm-hmm.

Erik Solbakken: And, and, and my- Interesting ... spirit... And the only thing I can share is my own personal experience and the- Sure ... experience of people that I've been with is like those of u- those that are a, are seeking a higher power stay sober And live purposeful, lovely lives.

And I'm like, okay, there... The theory is proven by the fact.

Victor Strecher: Yeah.

Erik Solbakken: Right? And w- Yeah ... it works. Yeah. Sure. Like, and- Right ... but it's, it's not a, a up or down, push down thing, right? And, and the, and, and again, my experience so far, and which is why I love the Viking Academy that I've, that has create- been created through me.

Yeah. It's, it's a philosophy of self-discovery, which mean it's a constant searching and finding more pieces. Yeah. And that's why I love what you've been doing, is you keep finding more and more layers and connecting it and going, "Now, what, what is true for Vic today? What is-" Yeah ... the thing is, but at your core it's been that baseline, which I love that you said, "I wanna, I wanna treat every student like I'm teaching my daughter."

Victor Strecher: Yeah.

Erik Solbakken: That's like, that's- That,

Victor Strecher: and get people out on the dance floor to-

Erik Solbakken: Yeah ...

Victor Strecher: um, you put a really interesting spin and, um, perspective on 12 step programs that I hadn't thought about before. Because, you know, when you think about, I think about agency like you do a lot, and when you think about that first step, I'm, I'm helpless without God, you know, to, to do this.

It, it was off-putting for me- Mm-hmm ... quite honestly, because I thought you're removing control from that person, and I wanna build their self-efficacy. I don't wanna say, "You can't do this." But you've, you've given me a different perspective on how to look at it, and, and I appreciate that. And the, the fact of the matter is, and being in the behavior change field, I know that this works for many, many, many people, too.

And also, it's a very popular approach to take. So I'm, I'm not dissing it. It's just that first step was, like, going, wait a second, I wanna give people power. Yeah. I wanna make sure people have self-efficacy, self-confidence.

Erik Solbakken: I can add another l- another nuance to it. Please. Um, is that when you are in the alcoholic haze- your ego is in charge.

It's an over-inflated ego that's going, "Feed me- Mm-hmm ... feed me booze." Right. And it's me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me. Yeah. Right. You are, in a sense, insane, and the first step of release from your insanity is to recognize that you're insane and surrender to that fact.

Victor Strecher: Which makes a lot of sense.

Erik Solbakken: And that's the surrendering- Yeah.

Thank you for that. Yeah ... to a higher power is-

Victor Strecher: Yeah ...

Erik Solbakken: going surrender to it. And so you surrender to that, which is the first layer of dropping it, and then as you go and seek it, it starts to then work its magic on you, which you realize, and that's... Like, I've said that. I think, and I've only been articulating this for maybe the last six months or so, Vic.

Huh. I said I've been seeking a higher power my entire l- my entire 18 plus years, coming up on 19 years, I've been seeking a higher power only to realize I've been actually seeking myself. But if you tell an alcoholic when they first come in, "You're gonna go seek and find yourself," they're like, "All right.

Feed my ego more. Then I can do whatever I want." Yeah. It's me, me, me. Right. And,

Victor Strecher: and- And they're always kind of boxing, and what- Boxing ... AA has done is give... is use judo.

Erik Solbakken: And- Yes. Exactly, 'cause it... You just... You gotta... You... The, the whole people drop down. Gently

Victor Strecher: puts you on your back. Yeah. And you go-

Erik Solbakken: Yeah ... "

Victor Strecher: Oh, okay."

Erik Solbakken: But,

Victor Strecher: but the- "Now let's get up."

Erik Solbakken: Yeah. And the interest- the most interesting thing with this is my relationship with self.

Victor Strecher: Mm-hmm.

Erik Solbakken: I have more freedom by relie- by- not allowing my ego to take charge. So I'm in a constant state every day, Vic, where I'm- I'm- I'm so excited about exploring myself without getting caught up into the self and letting the ego run away with it.

Victor Strecher: Sure. Sure.

Erik Solbakken: So that's why I'm in a constant state, okay, what am I learning? What am I ex- what am I experiencing? What am I learning, and what am I here to contribute? Wow. And it keeps my ego in check.

Victor Strecher: Yeah.

Erik Solbakken: Yeah.

Victor Strecher: Yeah. Wow. That's great. Cool.

Erik Solbakken: Yeah.

Victor Strecher: Um- I love it ...

Erik Solbakken: you didn't... Where was that app you were... The purpose app.

I just wanna make sure the listeners can-

Victor Strecher: Oh, it's called Purposeful. Purposeful. And, and so-

Erik Solbakken: Okay ...

Victor Strecher: yeah, so Purposeful you can get on the Apple Store or Google Store. Cool. And, and that's, like, a really buttoned up app, and we've spent 10 years building it. So- Awesome ... it- it, it is a very nice app. Um, it certainly is recommended to people who are searching for purpose, but I think even more importantly, how do you become purposeful?

How do you bring your best self every single day to life, to work, to your family, to your community? Uh, that's something we've spent a lot of time on, uh, in that application. It's, it's a very powerful app. I've built a bunch of smaller free apps, um, especially for speaking engagements and things. Um, I, I'm just really exploring, and then some of those apps and elements of them go into Purposeful.

But, you know, using AI now to build these smaller pieces of... You know, I have one on finding your strengths and-

Erik Solbakken: Hmm ...

Victor Strecher: and then helping you with that. I have one specifically on space, sleep, presence, activity, creativity, and eating. And, and those are really, uh, those are interesting. I would say, you kinda asked me what are, what am I learning now.

I honestly feel like I'm finally putting a lot of this stuff together. A lot of the pieces of this puzzle are turning into an actual picture now, and, and I feel like there's a real strong science to it, and that's... I am a scientist, so that feels really good. I'm kinda wondering now that I'm 70, um, you know, I teach.

I do podcasts like this. I have my own podcast, This Purpose Cast. I'm considering writing another book. Um- And, you know, I just need to maintain. I need to maintain this energy and build this, and connections. I love connecting with much younger researchers who are kind of st- striving to make a name for themselves, to get grants and be able to answer the questions they've been asking for a long time.

I love doing that and being a mentor to them, and just supporting them. I don't need any more journal articles. But that's, that's what I'm into right now.

Erik Solbakken: I love it. I love it.

Victor Strecher: Uh,

Erik Solbakken: that... Man, this has been awesome. Thank you so much-

Victor Strecher: Oh ...

Erik Solbakken: you know, for spending your time with me, man Eric

Victor Strecher: the Biking, oh my goodness, yeah This is- I do wanna s- I do wanna go up there sometime and, and if I am there, I'm definitely looking you up.

I wanna-

Erik Solbakken: Oh, I've, I've got the suite, I got the Strecker's suite right down there for you and your wife. That's... It's, it's, it's ready for you- Appreciate it. Appreciate it ... any time, um, when you're on the island. I- we call it The Rock, when you come over to The Rock, so on the Vancouver Island. It's a

Victor Strecher: phenomenal place you live.

That's great. Yeah. That's really wonderful.

Erik Solbakken: Um-

Victor Strecher: I so appreciate you inviting me.

Erik Solbakken: Yeah. Um, this book, absolute gift. What you're doing, an absolute gift. And- Thanks ... being on the podcast, triple gift for me. Thank you, brother. Yeah. I really appreciate you.

Victor Strecher: You take care.

Erik Solbakken: Thanks for listening to the Viking Academy Podcast. Make sure to leave us your honest feedback by leaving a review on Apple or Spotify and hit.