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What if true wellness wasn’t about restriction, but alignment?

In this episode, we sit down with Cassandra Bodzak: mindfulness author, holistic wellness coach, and creator of The Mindful Table, to explore the deeper connection between nourishment, self-worth, and conscious living.

Blending science, spirituality, and lived experience, Cassandra shares how many people, especially women, have been conditioned to disconnect from their bodies, ignore their intuition, and tie their worth to unrealistic standards around food and wellness.

Together, we explore mindful eating, emotional healing, self-care, and what it means to create a life that genuinely supports your energy, growth, and expansion.

This isn’t about perfection or rigid routines, it’s about learning to listen to yourself again and building a healthier relationship with your body, your habits, and your life.

Topics We Explore:

• Healing your relationship with food and body image
• Mindful eating and conscious nourishment
• Creating habits that support energy and expansion
• Breaking free from shame, stress, and perfectionism
• Balancing wellness, spirituality, and everyday life
• Self-care as a foundation for growth and alignment
• Learning to trust yourself and your body again

Connect with Cassandra Bodzak: https://www.cassandrabodzak.com

Learn More about The Viking Academy: https://www.vikingacademy.com

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Episode Transcript: 

Hi everyone, welcome back to the Viking Academy podcast. This week we have Cassandra Bodzak. She is an actress, a

Spiritual healer, and a the author of a book called The Mindful Table. And we go

Really deep down into uh the body and nutrition and what we need to be looking at for uh healing ourselves. I keep keep

Having this thought that we we're able to heal ourselves. I just I can't get rid of it. It just keeps sticking with me. And I truly believe that we we

Opened up a couple of those cracks in the door that I think we'll be able to open and to find out what what we need to do individually to heal ourselves.

And it all comes down to listening to what the body tells you it needs and not being so attached to it. I go we talk a

Lot about the addictions that I have. We talk about addictions to sugar um and what her experiences was were with some

Really horrible uh food allergies, but how she found a way out of it. She's written a bunch of books. This is the this this one here, the Mindful Table,

Is awesome. There's a bunch of extra resources also in there. If you go to her website and go to the Mindful Table, there's a bunch of meditations that go

Along with the book. And um again, it's was a fantastic conversation. Again, it reminds me why I love doing these

Podcast interviews is that I'm more and more convinced that self-discovery, being an explorer, exploring the body,

Mind, and spirit and and discovering what works right for you is the adventure. It, you know, instead of a

One one blanket covers everybody like everybody should do this for their body, everybody should do this for their mind, everybody should do this for their

Spirit. No, it's like the world is a big literal uh smorggage board. It's like going to the buffet. You get to pick and

Choose what works for you. Some some foods work, some foods don't. You're going to find that out on this podcast.

So without further ado, let's go explore.

Welcome to the podcast. Thanks. So good to be here.

So I said that there will be no preparation. There'll be no readiness.

The the interview will lynchly start and you won't even know it started. So that's what just happened.

So talk to me a little bit about So I was I got connected through your publicist or someone reached out to me to say, "Hey,

You should have Cassandra on the podcast." And I'm like, "All right, sounds great. Let's go do that." So we've never met before. I'm very

Curious. Tell me a little bit more about yourself.

Yeah. Um, so yeah, so Jen um was scouring and searching because uh I had

A book that just come out called The Mindful Table um which is all about tuning into your body's wisdom and um

Reclaiming your power around how you take care of yourself both like food, meditation, um self-care, rest,

Exercise, all of those things. Kind of tapping back into our innate wisdom around all of that. And so, yeah, so she

Was scouring for what she thought would be really aligned conversations for me to have around this. And that's kind of

How we ended up connecting. Um, my story obviously goes way before this book. Um,

And I've been in the mindfulness and wellness space probably for over a

Decade now, which feels wild. Um and I started off as an actress. I am also an

Actress. But this, you know, whole career kind of took off um really from

That place of my own experience of having my own dark night of the soul, so to speak,

With my body and um getting really sick and not being able to figure out what was going on and having to really come

Back to my own body's wisdom and open up that communication with my body and I believe my higher power um to start

Figuring out what was going on. And for me, it was um a few different food allergies that were giving me some

Pretty severe symptoms. And that set me off on this whole different journey of really exploring like what is it like if

We take our own ownership of becoming food detectives and really you know stewards of our bodies in that way of

Instead of just taking in everything that someone like you know what's in a book or in an article or a podcast or

Any of this stuff we approach it from that place of I'm going to is I'm going to, you know, be a detective. I'm going

To try these different things out. I'm going to observe what it feels like in me. And also, I'm also going to listen to my intuition when I have inclinations towards a certain thing or away from a

Certain thing. Um, and really strengthening that journey. So, I ended up here uh my first book, so I guess

It's been over a decade. My very first book, Eat with Intention, came out a decade ago. And then this is my fourth

Book, um, The Mindful Table, a decade later. And I think we've come so far in

The past 10 years um that people are really open to listening to it in a different way than they were when I

First started out. Um but yeah, that's a little bit about my journey. There's a lot of obviously things on the up in

Between, but that gives you like a good place to kick off with, I guess.

Yes. Yes. Okay. So, you said something there. Um so, you said you had some really bad food allergies. What were the food allergies? Like what happened? Um

O for me what was started happening was my whole um torso would lock up. So it

It wasn't really like it was very hard to express if you've never actually for any of the women listening um if you you

Know had natural child birth. Very similar to kind of what a contraction feels like except none of the relief. Um

Where you just feel like everything like really tense up in your torso and lock in. Um, and so I used to describe it as

Like period period pain times a thousand, which I know doesn't help the men either, but um, the difference of it

Is that it really went up all the way, like my whole torso. And so it became so so painful that it was really hard to

Walk. Um, and you know, not because anything was wrong with my legs, but just like you know, somebody like kicks

You in the gut, right? You're going to hunch over. It's going to be hard for you to walk. And um and that was like that was the biggest thing. I was also

Obviously, you know, had other things where I was like tired and brain foggy and things like that, but that was the most obtrusive pain. And so what I was

Able to figure out is that I have which is very um uh I don't know, not common

That a lot of people talk about, but I have sensitivities to chicken and eggs.

And at the time I was thinking that I was, you know, being incredibly healthy.

Mind you, at this time I'm in my 20s.

I'm an actress. I'm working out every day. I'm eating egg whites with vegetables for breakfast. I'm having grilled chicken with a salad for lunch.

I'm having another roasted chicken with vegetables for dinner. So I'm thinking I'm eating like the pinnacle of health.

Um Yeah, exactly. And but I was that that's like when all this started happening and I wasn't the last thing I

Mean I did like four months of testing all different kind of blood work all this stuff and again mind you this was over a decade ago so it wasn't the way

It is today where we have a ton of different blood tests and food allergies and sensitivities are more in like our zeitgeist and things that we think

About. It was still a little bit fringe back in the day and we mostly just like associated it with like dairy or like

Kind of like these bigger ones. Um, and so yeah, so it it took a while. It took going through all the blood tests to

Pretty much being dismissed. Um, and saying there's nothing wrong with you.

We've done like every t test we can possibly do for me to then embark on my own journey

Which was I think partly guided through my connecting to my own body's wisdom and my own intuition and also um a nurse

Who I really feel like was like some heavensent angel on my last day that I was there I remember one of the last

Tests they gave me was the leukemia test And um it came back negative, right?

Which would be very exciting, but I was a mess. I was I was a mess. Not because

Obviously I was grateful that I didn't have leukemia, but I was a mess because I just felt like nobody knows. Like

Nobody's going to figure it out. And now they're at the end of the rope. They don't know what else to look into and I'm just going to have to deal with this. And I was a dancer, too. I mean, I

Was always been a very physically active person. You know, did ballet, jazz, modern, lyrical. I was in at this point I was choreographing too a couple nights

A week. And so I'm like my body, you know, like I So it was this whole thing.

And she mentioned, she was like, "Hey, you know, I've just been I was just reading about something about how more stuff is coming out around food

Sensitivities and food allergies. Like maybe you should look into that." And so, of course, being the kind of person

I am, I like dove into that. I went to the library, looked at like any book that they had, you know, I was looking up whatever information I could. And

That's when I came across um elimination diets for food allergies. And it was really an intuitive I think it was part

Intuitive and part I like to to mix what I say spirit and science. I think it's like read all the things. I love I love

Reading the research and what's coming out there, but then also like run it through your own discernment and your own intuition. Um, and so I took the

Typical elimination diet a step further and I stopped eating all meat. And the

Reason I did that was not because I actually thought that meat was the culprit cuz I really didn't at all at that point. In fact, chicken was the

First thing I added back in and got incredibly sick, which is how I knew. Um because I was so ready to go back to eat

The way I was used to eating and I was so convinced that there couldn't possibly be anything wrong with it. But um but I eliminated it just

Because on the off chance that there was something going on digestively, meat can be harder to like it takes a

Little bit longer to go through your digestion, right? So, I eliminated on that thought, right, of like, let me let

Me essentially start eating foods that are just be super easy for my body to digest and

Mostly don't flare up any sort of the top allergens or common sensitivities and stuff. Um, yeah. And then literally

Within, you know, the first week of doing that, I felt like a totally different person. All my pain went away.

I had more energy than I ever had before. Um, it was remarkable. And then you start adding things in little by

Little to kind of see what flares up, what it flares up and different sensitivities. And uh, that

Really set me on my journey and became the foundation of a lot of what I teach um, in the mindful table is

To be that kind of detective with yourself, right? And I say, you know, if you don't the the detective work I teach

In the mindful table is less, I think of an extreme version because it's for the

Person that maybe isn't like me where I was like in bed barely able to walk like all that. But for the average person that's maybe like, hm, I notice I'm

Bloated a lot more than usual or I notice I have this like thing going on with my skin or I'm feeling more brain foggy. Right? And we have the

Or I don't have as much energy, whatever it is, right? Like those things that um we have really the ability to kind of go

In and see what's like what's helping us and what's hurting us in not just food, but in everything when it comes to like

Our workouts or how we're sleeping, you know, all different kinds of things.

So, you've said a a bunch of things here that I'd love to dive into a little bit more. So, I've had this niggling feeling

In the back that we can heal ourselves like that. There's it's just it's that gut feeling. There you go. The gut feeling. See what I did there? Is that

Gut feeling that we can actually heal ourselves and and I love how you you combined taking the science that we know and combining it with the intuition that

We have I think we've known and we've lost as humans. I think we've we've we've hidden it. We've buried it under

The guise of, you know, scientific progress, so everything becomes more scientific. And it's not this or that.

It's both. So, I love how you've brought them both together. Because that doesn't mean that we just because I I I talk to

People quite often. They're like, "Yeah, we need to stop doing all this mind stuff. We need to get more to the spirit." And then other people are like, "What's spirit? Forget it. It's all like

Mind stuff." And I'm like, "Well, shouldn't it just be both?" Right? And so I love how you brought those two together. So, so, but I I I just can't

Help from thinking that we have ability to actually heal ourselves. And I love your story because you've actually healed yourself through self in through

Inquiry, being inquisitive, being an explorer and then actually testing and trying it on your body to see what worked and what didn't. Right. Because

And and what you're saying here, I'm getting the mindful table. I'm going to buy it right away because I've been having these bags under my eyes. The rainfall. Like you started naming a

Bunch of things that has been happening to me lately. Like I've had these bags under my eyes. I'm going what is going on here? Probably can't see it now

Because I got a you know the zoom filter is really good, right? Get a little zoom filter. So you you look really good on the screen, right? But but literally I wake up in the morning, big bags under

My eyes. I had a little more brain fog and and I'm going I think there's something I'm allergic to, but I wasn't sure. So here's one of the questions I

Wanted to ask you is when you went to the bare moments, what did you start with? Like what was what were you eating before you started introducing the other foods?

Um yeah. So first of all, yes, the what you're saying with your the under eyes is like um in Chinese medicine, these

Are also like your kidney, liver, your detox uh connected to those things. So for sure it's uh it's something probably

In your environment um or maybe something you're eating that is um not but that's but this is what I think is

So great right it's like our body is never not communicating to us right and

If we can be in tune enough to pick it up when you're like starting to get bags under my eyes right if we can pick it up

On that level at the like eye bags and brain fog level then it doesn't have to get farther down the line, right?

Because we can tune into that and we can play around with that. Um, and say, hm, and for your for that, you can do the

Same thing like for instance, so to answer your question before I go on, but like

To answer your question, for me, what I did is I went like I went like brown rice and like basic vegetables. Were thinking like brown rice, sweet

Potatoes, um zucchini, broccoli, like I kept it super

Um bland and benign, so to speak. Um and so like everything was like gluten-free

And um fruit. I did do fruit. Like in the morning I would do fruit. Um and here's the thing, there are going to be

People, I believe this, that there going to be people that are sensitive to everything, right? So you may you try to eliminate like the top you know the top

Allergens things that could bother people right we we all know dairy we all know gluten there are certain nightshade vegetables that sometimes do have

Sensitivities for certain people um uh like so eggplant peppers tomato um

Certain nuts like peanut butter um cashews um there's like anything fermented if you've got different things going on.

You know, we also think like sauerkraut and yogurt and all this stuff is so good, but depending on what you've got going on in your gut, it may not. So,

It's kind of things like that. It's not about saying anything is bad. Like, I eggplant's probably one of my favorite

Foods. Um, but just being like, okay, for this thing, I'm going to strip all these things away and then slowly add

Them back in. Keep it really basic. Now, of course, I could have had a weird thing to broccoli or something, right?

Some people, you know, but it's just about getting really getting as clean as you

Can and then seeing how that feels, right? And then adding one thing at a time. So, being like, okay, now I'm

Having that, you know, maybe I'm like really missing having um some coconut yogurt in the morning. Let me add in the

Coconut yogurt. But adding it in one at a time so that you can notice, okay, I added the coconut yogurt back in

And I was feeling bloated afterwards or whatever, right? Because what happens, we often eat just so much stuff at one time that it's hard for us to discern.

However, what I would do, what I recommend in the book, and what I recommend for people that are not in like dire straight situations, um, is

Being a food detective. So, and I think it's really fun. I don't know. I'm just like being like a dork, but um I like

Writing, you know, like for you, I would do this for sure for your eye bags. Um writing down all of the like what am I

Eating every day, what am I drinking, um if there's any other like supplements you're taking or any other sort of like

Environmental like when it come nowadays especially for things like eye bags and uh brain fog. If you're in any

Environments with um scented anything, scented candles, uh any sort of aroma,

Like aroma things, um if you have any sort of like shampoos or body products like that, I would just start logging

It. Like for most people, you probably, you know, around the same like if you have an air freshener in your car, which

I don't recommend, but if you do, log that down, right? All of these things are things that you're probably, you

Know, you probably use the same shampoo for at least a month or whatever until you run out of it, right? So, I would write all these things down that you're

Regularly like interacting with your body plus what you're eating and what you're drinking and then just start observing as certain things pop up,

Right? So, for instance, if you're let's say you alternate between like three different breakfast items, right? Like

One breakfast you'll have, let's say the Can you tell? I love coconut yogurt.

You'll have coconut yogurt with some berries or some granola. Um, and you write that that down. And then you're doing a podcast at p.m. And you're

Like, "How am I feeling as I go on this podcast, right? Do I feel satiated and focused? Do I feel good?" Great. Okay, you could just write good. No big deal.

Um, and then you start noticing, okay, maybe the next day you're like, I'm gonna just I'm in a rush, so I'm going

To just grab this protein bar on my way home from the gym and hop into my first calls of the day. And you start noticing

Maybe like an into your first call, well, I'm feeling like actually a little bloated or gassy, right? Um, and so you just start refining that and you just

Start making little notes. And again, it doesn't have to be, it shouldn't be this like all-consuming, all-encompassing thing. I'm like, write it on the notes,

You know, section of your phone. Um, jot it down. You can even take a moment, you know, at the end of the night maybe to like look over, see if you missed

Anything. Um, and then let's say for something like that, you do this for like a couple of weeks and then you look

Back and you start noticing the patterns, right? If something new emerged, for instance, if you're like,

"Wow, my eyes were fine for X and then you're like look back and you're like, when did that kind of start shifting?" And then

You want to see, okay, well, did anything change? Am I in a different environment in any way? Did I introduce something new to my environment? Am I

Using a different moisturizer or a different shampoo? Am I doing a different laundry detergent? Um and

Because all of that detoxes through our body too, right? All that stuff that we put on. Um and then similarly, did I add

In any sort of supplement or any sort of, you know, food that's new if something new arises? Now, at the same

Token, for most of us, especially, you know, people like me and you, we're, you know, we're not 10 years old anymore. We

Have years of buildup that our body is, you know, working through and the older we get, the more we keep adding to that

And, you know, those detox pathways may need a little bit more love. Um, and so

Just noticing noticing that and just starting to notice which foods help and which foods hurt and same thing

With exercise or supplements. But I really love the approach of that kind of detective work because the amazing thing

That will happen after you do that for 2 weeks and I try to I really try to tell my clients like resist resist to look at

It and for like the full two weeks because it's so tempting to try to like do that. But if you have two weeks, it's a nice snapshot of your usual stuff as

Well as like mixed in with some sort of like surprise things like your friends went out to dinner or you you know like little things in the mix. You can kind of start seeing some themes.

Wow. I noticed that if I do when I did I noticed on Wednesday

I felt like I was a little low energy and maybe I was fighting something off and then on Thursday I went and did my

CrossFit workout anyway and by Friday I was full-on sick, right? And so like and

Again the thing I love about this is that we're not saying anything is like inherently bad, right? But it's also just observing what works for your body.

So like for that example, I've learned that for some people different forms of working out, right? If they're feeling

Like a little under the weather might be fine. Um, for me, if I'm feeling like like I'm about to like a little under

The weather, if I replace my regular workout with like a nap, it is much more likely for me to not

Succumb to full sickness, right? And for me to allow myself to like give the sleep instead of the energy expenditure

For a couple days will shift it. And similarly with different kinds of foods and different things. So the game of it

In my opinion is learning how to rig yourself for success and learning your body and releasing like the the dogma

And like kind of the doctrine of like black and white this is good, this is bad. Well, it's great, you know, like you might eat three eggs in the morning

And feel amazing and I might eat three eggs and have hives all over me. Like it does it, you know, depending on what's going on in our life and all the other

Things going on in our bodies biologically. It's it's it's about learning what works for you.

I love that messaging because the one thing that I don't like is I don't like fear FOMO like, oh gez, everyone's doing

This. Here's the new thing. It's the new Aubberry. It's the new whatever, the newest craze that comes out, right? And then here's the newest thing. So then

There's this FOMO, this fear of missing out. And if you don't rush in and do it, then it's and I think there's a there's a spiritual connection to this. It's

Fear-based. So then you're fearful. And if you're doing anything out of fear, it's always going to be negative. It's going to be wrong. It's going to work

Out the wrong way. I like this openness of going, and this is where the, you know, the Viking Academy, the ethos of the Viking Academy, exploring your body,

Mind, and spirit. It's a self-discovery platform. I say like, embrace your inner Viking. Go explore your body, mind, and spirit. And experience the joy of

Self-discovery. Each one of us is so different and that's the fun part.

That's the exciting part. It be can it can be instead of being fearful and oh I'm not doing this right because everybody else is doing something else.

It's like no no figure out what works right for you. So I love the fact that you're messaging that and it's like because I've noticed the same thing too because I'll go like all of a sudden I

Went for example I stopped uh I stopped I started doing some inter intermittent fasting. People have talked about doing f intermittent fasting or fasting here

Or there and I was like I started feeling like crap and I was going I just I was bloating feel crap. Talked to someone they were like oh my god I got

Rid of gluten I feel amazing and I was like oh okay well why don't I try that pulled the gluten away I went I feel great and then I tried something else

And I was like don't eat anything late at night Eric. Okay. So, I stopped and I noticed now if I eat something too late at night, I wake up in the morning, I

Feel like I got that little package in the in the gut again. I've started doing intermittent fasting. Tried that and all of a sudden it's like I don't eat from

About at night till about 12 the next morning. So, is right. And it's kind of works like that. Feel incredible. When I go off it, I feel

Like crap. So, I'm just I'm just I'm I'm actually being a food detective now. And I love how you put a label on it cuz it's actually that makes it more fun like being a food detective.

That exactly. And I think exactly what you said, it comes from that place of taking these actions from a place of

Self-love and from a place of genuinely wanting to honor and nourish your body instead of taking it from a place of

Fear and scarcity and lack. And you know, I feel like you touched on a bit of like the peer pressure element that

Can be in like the wellness world, but there's also this part I think sometimes when we give our power away to people

That whether it's like whether it's a podcast or it's someone you, you know, read a book on or whatever and maybe they're a doctor and whatnot. And it's not about like don't read, don't ingest.

Like I'm a big like I love research.

Which I geek out to research all the time, but I'm a big like great, I just read this like new study on like X, Y, and Z and how, you know, you can eat

This and I'm like, let me let me try it out. Let me play around with it, right?

And it comes from this different place of I'm exploring this not because something well something's wrong with me

Or I you know and so this you know person on the internet is telling me that intermittent fix intermittent

Fasting is going to fix what's wrong with me right but hey I want to I noticed that you know my energy has kind

Of been low lately and I've been feeling bloated or whatever it is like you were saying, "Let me try this thing out. Hey, I I listened to a podcast and this guy

Said it really worked for him. Let me play around with that." And when we approach it from that that energy of like openness and

Curiosity, I think then it becomes first of all, we open up the space to genuinely listen to

Our body if it's a no, right? Because sometimes I think, you know, we hear like, "Oh, well, everyone's talking

About keto or everyone's talking about whatever it is like to eat seven apples or whatever, right?" You know, like

These like crazy like trend things that go on. You you're hearing that and it's like why don't you like you give it a try but

With that energy of curiosity of like it is okay if this is not for me, right?

And um I think when we start operating from that space, it's a lot easier to to

Adapt these dietary approaches, you know, like with the gluten thing, which is like a hot topic all the time. It's

Like, you know, for me, I always say like when I grew up, eating like banana pancakes after church on a Sunday like was one of my favorite things, right?

And so as I got older, like you know, that was still it was more of like a comfort food. When I was doing my food

Detective work, I started really noticing that like when I have pancakes, I'm like a zombie the rest of the day,

Right? Like total gluten coma or whatnot. Like you know that I understand the gluten coma. Yeah.

And like my brain is not working, all of that. And so then there's a part of me that I would say like 99% of the time I

Don't feel like I can't have pancakes. I just choose not to have pancakes because I don't want to feel that way, you know?

And then if like once a year or like during a special occasion, you know, I'm back home with my parents and we're going to like the old like pancake

Restaurant and I'm like, "F it. I'm going to do it." And I know I can just like veg out at my parents house after this. Then okay fine, right? But I don't

Feel like restricted the rest of the time because I'm not choosing it because I decided it's, you know, a bad food.

I'm just not choosing it because I'm choosing not to feel the way it makes me feel. And when you're choosing, that's why like

It's funny whenever I tell people that, you know, I can't have chicken or eggs or whatever, people's response is always

Like, "Oh, I feel so bad for you." or something like that, right? Um, and I

And I I laugh at that because in my mind I'm like if something I can't even think

Of like an appropriate like respon like like metaphor, right?

Oh, I can I can I can Oh, tell me. I'm an alcoholic. I'm an alcoholic.

So, I'm a recovered alcoholic. This is 18 18 years sober. People are like, when I tell them I don't drink, I can't drink alcohol. I'm I'm allergic, you know, I

Break out in drugs or I break out in handcuffs or whatever, like I just And they're, "Oh, you can't drink." They feel sorry for me and I'm like, "Are you kidding me?" Like, it's not good for me.

Not only it's not good for me, it's not good for anybody. Like, really? Like, it's it's it's one of those things that it's just like I'm allergic to it. So, I

Don't I don't want to feel shitty. I don't want to have it. So, you don't even want it anymore.

Exactly. I'm like, I don't feel like I'm missing anybody else. If someone else wants to eat chicken in front of me, great. Enjoy that chicken. I have no issue with it, right? Yeah. Because I'm

Like, and I'm not I'm not tempted at all by that chicken because I know how bad the thing is. And so I feel like, you

Know, when we have like those kinds of extreme reactions to things, then

When we're actively choosing not to engage with that, it is from a place of deep self-love and deep selfrespect,

Right? Which creates a foundation for everything else in your life, right? If you have that foundation, I think

Especially you know being sober like when you have that foundation of saying I love myself enough to not engage with

This substance that only causes harm, right? Then you know I would say then when it comes to food then you also go

To that space where you're like once you notice something right so many of us have probably like little sensitivities to things we don't even notice right but

Then when you start noticing it it's very hard to unsee it right and so when you're like cuz I often say one of the

Things that people don't realize is that if you eat something and you notice right after you eat something your nose

Starts running a little bit or your eyes get a little watery or even you maybe you get like a mild headache that's actually a food sensitivity

Right because there's something in that food that you're having like a histamine reaction to right and

Now again I'm not saying that you have to say okay well then I can never again engage in that food but it is worth

Noting that that food even on a minor level is causing

A reaction in your body, right? And when your body is fighting any sort of in like any sort of reaction, right? So

Whether it's bloating, whether it's brain fog, whether it's um your skin breaking out, whether it's the little

Itchy eyes or whatnot, right? Your body is allocating energy to attend to that

That it could be allocating for your immune system for healing, right? For repairing,

Right? And so when you get into that space where you're like and so that's why oftent times and you have like let's say even if it's bloating or like what

We would consider a more minor reaction that most of us would you know deal with you know you'll also notice that usually

There's a drop in energy that goes along with it because when your body has to allocate extra energy to that well you

Have less energy right um it's so it's like it's it's also Why? If you're into intermittent fasting, you might notice

In the morning before you engage in any food, you have a lot more energy, right?

And that doesn't mean that we shouldn't ever eat, but you notice when you break your fast and you have whatever you're having for lunch, you will find just

Like a little energy dip that's normal, you know, at a at a, you know, an average level when we're eating. Why?

Obvious because your body's focusing on digesting now, right? And you can go on a walk and a lot of things you can do to

Kind of help that. But still um I think when you start tuning in on that level you start thinking okay well if it's

Giving me even a a minor reaction of sorts or it's having some sort of reaction in my body

Is also taking away from all the good processes because going back to what you were saying I do believe our body wants

To heal itself and our body can heal itself and most of the times we just need to get out of the way and we need to get the things that we're putting in

That are stopping that process from happening, you know, out my a good friend of mine who actually

Was a client of mine when I back when so I I've had multiple businesses and along the way and uh one of my previous lives

I call it previous lives was I was a I had a CPA firm. So I had the CPA firm and this guy was at a chiropractor and

We were in this business network it's called BNI business networking. So we'd go every week you'd go and you'd learn something about each person's business.

And he got up and he was talking about the spine and he goes he goes I don't heal you. He says I align your spine so

Your your body can heal itself. I remember he told me that and it was so interesting. It was a total shift on the way I looked at the body because all

Like no the body heals itself but you need to give it the op optimal love and attention and the right framework with

The spine so that it can actually do its job. It can actually do its work. And I find it very peculiar and interesting

Especially when we kind of I want to circle back around to the alcoholism too with with alcoholism. It's a it's a

Disease of the it's a it's an obsession of the mind coupled with an allergy of the body. So un unlike thing and I wanted to ask you about this when you

Stopped eating chicken and eggs did you still crave chicken and eggs or did you were you just like oh no gone see you said you shook your head no or did you

Or did you still go to So I would say um like not like craving craving but at first there was like the

Loss of the habit okay around it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Um, I think what I would describe I think there are certain foods that

Have more of that like sugar and refined flour are much more I think

Even dairy um because of the casein and dairy um will have a little bit more of because

I'm assuming you did still have cravings for alcohol right when you first stopped. Well, no, this is this is what I was going to get to because there's

And that's the addictive nature of some foods. So, there's the habit portion, right?

Yeah. The habit portion that you have portion, but then there's also this addictive portion, which is not the habit. There's I can break them off into

I can see them clearly now. So, there was a difference.

So, with for example, so when I went to get sober the first time, I did two years of going there to try and save my first marriage. Well, I wasn't there for

Me. It wasn't about self-love. It was about self-preservation. My outside world, I didn't want to be there. And so, the weird thing about alcoholism is

Is that it's a disease of the mind and the body. So, it's a dis it's an it's a obsession of the mind coupled with an allergy of the body. So, the body's

Allergic to alcohol, but the brain is obsessed with it. So, like if you had someone who was allergic to peanuts, they'd run from it. But you have an

Alcoholic and you put an alcohol in front of them, they're obsessed with having the alcohol even though they're allergic to it. So there's this weird

Dynamic with the alcohol that causes the same thing. Now the time, so I did two years in and then I went out

That first marriage broke down. Then I went out for four years to try some controlled quote unquote drinking which

Turned into a complete storm and complete crash. And at that point when I hit the bottom, that's when I surrendered completely. Haven't had a

Craving for alcohol since. Right. But that was a complete surrender to what the body was telling me and and and then

Also releasing the mind to a higher power. So going like for the last 18 and a half years I've been doing nothing but seeking a higher power and clearing a

Channel to the higher power. So, I love what we're getting to here and and and you're saying the body's talking to us all the time, which is our intuition and

Us talking to the creator, which is so there's this connection of the body, mind, and spirit that once we surrender

To it and listen to it and follow it, then things start to go into alignment.

Absolutely. And I feel like the I had that same moment um of like

Absolute surrender and like for me it was like just being in pain and having all these tests come back negative and then finally getting to that point where

Before that I had for different intentions, right? I I was already eating like a somewhat

Restrictive diet, right? Because I was trying to, you know, be skinny and be fit or whatnot. And so I'd had all these

Kind of experiments with eating, let's say, and it's not like I was like living my life eating all the things, you know,

And enjoying everything. So I had all these experiments with it, but it was always from a place of wanting to change myself to be better in essentially for

Other people, right? To be like, oh, well, I want to be I want to be attractive as an actress. I want people to pick me, like all of that stuff. It

Was never from a place and I think deep down I always knew that a lot of the ways I was going about that weren't honoring my body at all or weren't the

Best for me at all. Right. But then I think just like the what's shifted from you from like doing it for your ex-wife

Verse getting to a place of having to be brought to your knees um and choosing it

For you and choosing it because you are no longer willing to do this and you were kind of in that place that of

Surrender. That is what I try to help people do without having that level

Of pain that we both had to experience to get there on a micro level. Is if

Instead of me sitting here and showing you all of the studies on how gluten

Creates inflammation in your gut or dairy does this or whatever the things, right? I'm like just

Go and make a notation every time you have that, right? Um same thing with sugar and all and refined flour and I

Would cons I would put like sugar, refined flour, highly processed food in a very similar camp to alcohol

Where there are and that's something that I work with people. I talk about this in the book too because I am

I am someone that is allergic to refined sugars, right? In

That way, right, where I discovered this about myself through actually just doing a sugar detox cuz I was experimenting

And wanting to do, you know, I had read some stuff about it and I was like, "Okay, like I think I'm pretty healthy.

I'm eating pretty healthy. Let me do a sugar detox." And when I did that detox

And then I remember it was towards the end of it I went out to brunch with my friends and I ended up getting it was

Like at this like hipster cafe in New York or whatnot and they had like a tahini toast thing with berries on it

And I didn't see on the menu that it had like a honey drizzle all over it. I was allowing myself to eat fruit, but not

Like, you know, that like sugar sugar stuff. And I was like, but then I was like, "Oh, it's fine. It's like not it's

Honey." And it's not a big deal. And um I ate that. And then literally the rest of the day I was like walking around

East Village like a cookie at this place or a pastry at this place. And I remember like ending up at my gym in

Union Square at like 900 p.m. At night having a breakdown being like all I ate today was variations of like refined

Flour and sugar because of that one thing I had in the morning. And that was my moment of realizing okay I

Don't have a normal relationship with this. And I think, you know, these substances are built for us to really

Not have a normal relationship with a lot of them, right? But when we realize that, then the loving thing to do

Is to be able to say, "Okay, well, from a self-loving place, I don't want to I don't want to engage with this." And

It's not because anybody told me it was bad or wrong or whatever. It's because

I don't want to feel the way I never want to feel the way I felt that night. Right?

And that's part of loving yourself. So I talk about that in the book that there are certain foods that you may have to

Say this is a forever no, right? There are certain foods that get to be and and

Like you said with alcohol like I'm someone with alcohol that like I mean I don't because of I think I know the effects of

Alcohol for me the next morning and alcohol um I don't when I do if I had like a glass of wine the next morning I

Feel so anxious and gross and I'm just like there's enough things in the world to give me anxiety. I don't need to be like actively choosing one. Um, but so

That's like not as much of a thing for me. Whereas like if you put like some like fresh baked chocolate chip cookies

In front of me, you know, it's really hard for me to just have one, right? And why would you have one? No, that's I

Don't get the one. The one doesn't make sense to me cuz I have one cookie. I'm going to eat the whole bag. I literally somehow married a man that is that

Person and drive like how like he has one cookie.

He can do it. He loves like he can literally eat he'll be like oh I'm just going to have he'll have one cookie at

Night with his like tea or whatever after dinner and it'll last him all week. Meanwhile, I'm like crawling out of my skin.

Yeah. Yeah.

I'm like go hide them. Just hide them, you know? Um, so I think that's again that becomes part of your detective

Journey. And if there's something and it might not be like such a broad thing, it might be for you. You just notice that

There's like a certain doughut place that you seem to always end up at, right? And you're like, "This is becoming like a daily ritual that I

Don't want and then I like don't feel good afterwards." you may need to go cold turkey on something like that to be

Able to, you know, unwire that pattern from you. And and and and I think that

Again that just goes back to this what I try to teach is like this is the journey of like know thyself and rig thyself

Accordingly. And we're all going to have different things, you know, someone and and so sometimes having the broadest

Strokes of something. Um, it doesn't have to be like all sugar. I have no pro like I can eat all the fruit, right? I

Can eat all the fruit. I have no problem with fruit. I can absolutely stop and like my body will let me know when I'm satiated with pineapple or whatever you

Want to think, right? I'm not o I'm not oding on on fresh fruit. Um, no. There that is not to say that there might be

Might not be someone that's so sensitive that they need to even back away from some fruits for a while because the fruits will lead them to want a cookie

Or whatever. You know, I think it's the gateway drug. Fruit could be a gateway drug for you.

I I think you just have to It's part of it. It's all part of it and learning yourself and learning where you're at with things. Right. Right now like I can

Absolutely have raw honey in my tea and I think raw honey has many medicinal properties and stuff like that and it doesn't it doesn't have that effect on

Me right now right but um I think it's about learning where you're at with different things and um and for you what

The medicine is if the more loving thing and the thing that feels easier and more honoring right now is to fully eliminate

Uh something that you don't feel like you have a healthy relationship ship with then that is the right the right response and then if you're coming from

The other background where I've had clients that come from a highly restricting background

And that was a way that they use food for control and to punish themselves and to not feel things and stuff then the

Response for you might be different. It might be just saying I had one client recently where it was she was coming

From a restrictive binge background and for that it was like it was not that she could never have dessert or a treat. It

Was more so just like okay pick one or two nights like we started with two and then moved to one or whatever that you

Get to actively choice actively choose what you're going to indulge in. So, if you're like, "Oo, I really want that donut." You have to actually take that

Moment, breathe in, and say, "hm, if I choose this donut, that means no, like I'm not. This is my treat for the week.

Do I really want this enough to make that my treat for the week?" And maybe if it's like super special and you're

Like, "Oh, but it's like whatever this fashion, you know, like great popup shop or whatever, I don't know." You're like, "This is fine. I want to do that."

Great. You're doing it. You're doing it consciously um and you're choosing that. But I also uh just wanted to mention what you said.

I'm a huge believer in involving your higher power in this. And I think that from that work that I did with sugar,

Um, I have realized and I've seen this like change the lives of so many of my clients is that having that relationship with your higher power, whether you call

It body, wisdom, God, intuition, angels, like source, universe, whatever you want to call it, who cares? But like having

Some sort of relationship with a higher power that you're actively inviting in on this journey with you

That especially if you're making some big moves. I mean, if you're trying to eliminate like something that has like

More of, you know, a habit around it where you're like, man, I always go and get this, you know, one thing and I

Really don't want to do that. Then yeah like actively ask your you know your higher power can you help me please help

Me please give me strength please guide me. Um I with that same client we used that you know engaging with her higher

Power. Um, for her it was God and angels around the binging. And we, you know, as we started adding, I was like, "Every

Single day, as soon as you wake up, just a little prayer. God, angels, please support me today. Please help me be

Strong. Please help me, you know, give my body foods that nourish it. And um, please help me have another day absin

From binging." And then as different temptations arose, prayer again, right? Like, God, I'm

Feeling really tempted right now. I know I already ate this and this and I'm really tempted to make another reach into the fridge and please like remove

Me from this. And I'm sure you probably have so many stories of this from your own journey. But it's amazing how when

You get into that space where all of a sudden it'll be like your mom calls and like it breaks the energy, right? Or

Something else comes in and you're like, I gotta go do this and then you even forget the oh I forget I was almost just about to do that thing I didn't want to

Do. Um yeah, so I'm a big believer in helping that in this journey. I'm glad you brought that back around because I

Was going to ask you about that if you incorporate because if you incorporated the higher power intuition into it and

Again I like for the Viking Academy even though it's about you know and I talk about the Vikings how they were strong in their minds their body and their

Spirit and because of that they lived with passion and purpose you know they believed in Odin and Freya and all the gods and goddesses and all the pagan

Rich which I love it's so great right it's so great but at the same I'm with this exploration. I'm like just go

Towards what feels right to you. It doesn't seem to it doesn't matter. It doesn't seem to matter what you call this higher power. Call it Allah, Buddha, Brahma, baby Jesus, whatever

Doesn't matter. But I found the art the act of actively seeking brings in a power greater than ourselves.

But you have to couple that with action.

Like you can't just sit and pray and do nothing. So this is where the and and you so you have to think. So you need to use your your body, your mind and your

Spirit in con connection the three pieces, right? The the you know uh father, son, holy ghost, right? Or whatever the holy trinity you

Need to activate all three to make this work, you know. And um and so you know for me that's

But it's it's an individual journey and you know if you if you believe and you want to Jesus great if

You want to go Allah great you want to go over here and it's a the the you know the nisarata maharaj maybe it's a

Bagavad gita whatever just go explore and you'll find out what resonates with you and it's figuring out what works for

Each one of us right and and And I find that, and I love what I'm picking up here from this whole conversation, it's

That the joy of looking for it because you want to, and you've said it, it's

Selflove. It's truly the highest form of self-love is you want to do it to take care of this body as opposed to fear of

Missing out. So, it's like searching for a higher power because you want a higher power in your life, not because everybody else has one and if I don't

Get it, I'm going to hell. Do you know what I mean? Like, yeah. Like that's the Old Testament.

That's the old Yeah.

You know, you're going to hell, you sinner. You're going to hell, right?

Like no, it's like no go. My experience has been that when I'm down and out and when I reach for the higher

Power and I ask for help, that's when I get it. But I only get it if I'm actually doing it. So faith without works is dead. And so when you were

Saying that about because I've had bunchable times when I'm think especially about sugar. I'm a sugar fiend. Like if I get that story you had

About the one treat and then eating sugar all day happens to me still to this day. But I know that if the one

Thing that saves my butt every time because I don't remember to think about the higher power, but I'll be like, "Oh, I really want this." And God stop me

From getting the cookie. He goes, "Don't eat it. I want the cookie." He says, "Don't eat it. I want the cookie. Don't eat. I don't want it. I'm going to eat the cookie. Don't eat it. I'm I'm

Chewing it. Don't swallow it. I'm swallow. I'm swallowing the cookie. Next thing I'm turning into Cookie Monster. It's going everywhere.

If instead of doing that, I combine it with God to help me and they said no. And then I'm like, okay, who can I help?

Boom. That's for me. That's the big distractor. Who can I help? If I can turn my thoughts to somebody else, it

Gets me out of the bondage of self. Like it gets me away from that that self. And this is the weird balance. It's we're

Talking about self-love, which is sounds like selfishness or being self-centered and self-love are not the same thing.

They're they're completely opposite.

Like once you have true self-love, you love others as yourself, right? Completely. So, I love the fact that there's a space you can get to

Which is honoring the self and loving the self, but not the egoic self, the

Higher self. Because that's what we're talking about. You're actually honoring the creator by taking care of the what he gave each one of us, which is I think

Is the ultimate gift is that God gave me me. Yeah.

Like that is the ultimate gift. And I I'm now going to take I'm going to be a steward and take care of this thing. And when I'm taking care of it as if it's

Not mine, it's a gift that I get temporarily. It's a temporary gift that I have to give back at the end of this,

Right? Whatever the the end of my dash is now I'm treating it as the true gift and

I'm honoring the gift and I am now honoring my higher power by doing that and I think that's the I think that's

The connection there absolutely and I agree with you you know I in my work it's so funny I call it

Practical magic um and it's the combining of like the earthly and then the energetic and so whenever I give

Like any sort of like assignment like that, right? So what you were saying is like you you have yeah faith without

Works, right? So you have this, you know, prayer that you're doing, but then she also had like three steps of things to do when like the binge came on.

So we were already doing one like trying to set the foundation by starting every day with like a body gratitude meditation, tuning in, talking to her

Higher power, asking for that grace as she went through her day. And then in the moment of having like okay what's my

Process right if I'm feeling cravings one and I you know do this differently for each client because we just talk

About what you know what they think is going to work for them. It could be you know writing in their journal. I'm going to go go to a different room that

Doesn't you know doesn't have the fridge in it or whatever.

Go write in my journal. Um, and then the next one could be I'm going to do EFT tapping or the next one could be, you know, connection is a huge one, right?

So, it could be as simple as, okay, I'm just going to call someone, right? And maybe I don't even need to go to the I mean, it's great. Help people, great.

But like maybe it's just about call literally anyone that you haven't spoken to in a little a and just ask

Them how they're doing and just listen to what's going on for them. And it could be a bajillion, you know,

There's so many different things, but I agree having like a grounded action plan around it. And it's the same thing like

You know one of the the other tools just in general let's just say for someone that's like okay not in like binging or

You know you know any sort of like addictive stuff but maybe they're just trying to you know revamp and like eat in more alignment with their best

Feeling. Well, you can rig yourself for success by, you know, the night before just taking a moment and being like,

"Okay, let me quickly plan out my food for the next day." And so I'm not like waiting till I'm in the hub of the day

To like make a quick choice or end up with Uber Eats or, you know, grab something from a store that I don't really want to grab from. I can also

Give myself that grace to the night before.

Again, you can invite your have higher power into this and invite your intuition and say, "Okay, what would be

In my highest good to eat, work out, whatever tomorrow and you know, look through, okay, well, if I have these

Three options, tune into your body, tune into your higher power, what do I think is going to serve me the most out of

What I have in the fridge right now?" Okay, let me write that down. For lunch.

Maybe I'm going out with co-workers at a place. Okay, let me look up let me take two to look up their menu. See what the options are. And then from

That, tune in. Okay, what do I what do I feel like if I imagine myself eating that for lunch? What feels like it's going to really serve me? And write it

Down. Um, and then same thing for dinner, what not? And even for workouts, right? Tuning in to like, okay, is

Tomorrow like a restorative yoga day? Is tomorrow a strength training day? Is tomorrow a cardio day like what feels like my body what does it feel like my

Body really needs right now and writing that down and I think that's another way that we're able to

Love ourselves right we're able to do something kind for ourselves and support and I think it's another way of like we can mix these

Logisticals with also inviting our higher power in to say help Help me see this clearly.

Help me see what would be most serving.

Get me out of my head that thinks that I know everything best, right? So that I can actually receive the guidance around

What is actually best because you know we can get into some grooves and habits

With things, right? Where I see this with my husband sometimes, you know, he has his like little strength training routine is like hockey does or whatnot,

Right? And you know, I can notice if he's like a little under the weather or like his energy is bleeding and he'll be

Like, "Babe, do you think I should just tune in and see is it really going to are you going to feel great after this

Or do you need maybe need to take a rest or do like a more lesser routine or something, right?" And so I think those

Are those moments we can give ourselves grace. And if we're engaging with a higher power of sorts, I often find that

That's actually what allows us to receive information that maybe doesn't always match what our egoic mind wants to do. Mhm.

That you I've just visualized a step system through this because one of the things as you were explaining what

You're doing for your clients, which I love is is in alignment with what I say with my cl the coaching clients that I work with and I say, you know, willpower

Doesn't work. Systems work. Because willpower, you're going to have es and flows to your energy and your distraction, all the things you were

Talking about. So, how do we create a new habit? Well, let's put a system in place. And you said, here's what is your three-step system for that individual

Person to do when the craving hits, something prior to, something during, something after. Right? Maybe it's a before, during, and after. Those are the

Three stages, the three steps. But you put this in place and you need that system to get you on the surfboard of

Surfboard. Listen to me. I got a new accent here. It's a surfboard. Okay?

It's a surfboard. The surfboard of getting a new habit now that I've got a new habit now. But if I have if I use

The system as the if the system is constantly going like you're saying with your husband if he's going to the gym all the time even though and you go to a

Next level which is now the system has got you to a new habit now you want to you want to listen even more to your intuition which is almost coming back to

Not self-will but like yeah so it's the true self will like you're now tapping

Into the higher self. So you're coming out of these lower vibrational frequencies, right, of all the way up.

And now the higher you get, the more you want to connect with this higher power.

It's going to tell you your body like getting I wrote this down. I said, tune into what my body wants. Right? How many times have I not listened to it or if I

Have listened to it? Every time I listen to what my body says it wants, it rewards me. Every time I don't do what my body wants, it doesn't reward me. And

That's tying into that that higher power. So I just kind of saw this stepping system that kind of

Lays itself out there. And I think that you know depending on I think it's like at different like you were saying like

At different stages of your journey the system serves different purposes right and so like if you're really you know if someone's like really starting out it's

Like clueless about a lot of stuff then like maybe their system is I'm going to guide them with I'm going to help them a little bit more with what specifically

Those meals are right to give us like a base to begin with right and then they get to a certain point and you're like Okay,

You know, it's you're going to eat three healthy meals a day, right? And you are going to tune in, know what those healthy meals are, right? And

And it's kind of just knowing like where you're at in that. And same thing with movement, with exercise, they often say instead of being like you're going to do

This 3 days and this two days or whatever, I'm like you're going to move five days. You're going to move. You're going to do something for your body,

Right? And then you get to tune in to what is that movement that day, right?

And sometimes people need to start depending on where they are in their journey. They might need to start with a more like I'm going to do three days of

Strength training and two days of cardio and like that's kind of that helps them get going and then but within that the wiggle room of being like hey that's the

Program and I just want you to tune in and if any day you're like my body is feeling like today needs to be a lighter

Day or whatever right give yourself that permission right give yourself that permission to or if you're

Like, hey, you know, maybe today is supposed to be a cardio day and for whatever reason you're like, I just feel like I really want to strength train.

Great. Give yourself that permission, right? And we get to like play around with

Um it's that old adium like you need to like know the rules to break them. So sometimes we need to have these

Structures in place to help us to get us you know you know into a certain groove

So that we can tune in to to be like oh actually I don't need this right or I'm

Going to shift this I'm going to move this um and bringing it back to oursel but yeah I do think having that

Structure is incredibly helpful um in general it's helpful for a lot of I like how you said before that there's like a detox that has to happen first.

And so I think about it as early sobriety. Like you just like I I also play in '8s heavy metal band. I'm the

Drummer and lead singer in an 80s heavy metal band. I go and play bars all the time. People are drinking, doing all sorts of things around me. I'm

Completely it I'm completely safe. But if in the beginning of sobriety you were to say, "Okay, go and hang out in a bar.

It's not a good idea." like just don't do it right. Like you need to kind of get yourself out of the danger zone first to create Oh, absolutely.

To create a new healthy habit and then within that healthy habit, you then have options and you start realizing that

There's actually more Yeah. There's more freedom in having the more the more you say no to things,

The more freedom you have to say yes to the things that really matter to you. If that makes sense. It's like you open it up and all of a sudden like you're saying, "Do I miss chicken?" "No, don't

Want to ever have it because I know how I feel." It's like for alcohol for me, it's like people go, "Oh, don't you miss it?" I'm like, "Are you kidding?" Like I

Don't miss any part of the hangover. I don't miss any because now I've reframed the mindset. The mind is I'm I've been

Restored to sanity. So when you think about it, I was before we say then first step is that my life was unmanage like I'm I'm allergic to alcohol. My life is

Unmanageable. Basically asking a higher higher power to return me to sanity because I was insane before because I

Was under the grip of an insane thinking mind, right? And that when you think about this, all this eating and

Ingesting, which is alcohol is the same thing. The mind is overriding what the body is telling you. The body's going, "Nah." Right. Yeah.

Except when it comes to alcohol, you put alcohol in the Well, the sugar too, you put it in, the body goes, "Get me more." The brain brain goes, "Give me more." And then the brain the body breaks down

And goes, "This hurts. Tell the brain to get more of it. Okay, go get more." It's insane. Yeah. Does it make sense?

Yeah, it really is. It really is. And I do think that's why like in the beginning it is it is all like uh treating yourself like someone you love,

Right? Like being kind to yourself is thinking of like, okay, you know, take if there's any foods that you know like

That, you know, you're going to be tempted to eat, don't have them in the house, right? Don't have them in the house, right? If you have someone that

Loves you in the house, you know, I actually for a bit had to do this with my husband because for living by myself,

I just I never bought bread. Like I never bought bread. If I wanted to have like I'm not anti bread, but like if I wanted to have like a piece of something

Like avocado toast or something like that, right? I would just order it at the restaurant and that was it. So that I didn't have any extra left over

Because refined sugar and refined flour are like two buddies, right? Um, and so then I met my husband who is like the

Sourdough connoisseur of whatever and needs to like find all these like, you know, niche bakeries that are making all these kinds of sourdough or whatever.

And so I mean, he's buying good quality bread, but but he just again, he'll have that loaf just sitting there and he'll

Cut one slice every day and I'm like, "Oh god, I had bread for three meals today. Like I can't I had like toast for

This and then toast for that and like I haven't eaten any like real good food all day. And you know in that moment I was like hey I told him and I was like I

Know that it's probably hard for you to understand cuz you have such an opposite relationship to this that I do. But I explained to him kind of what it was

Like for me and I'm like I need you to hide your bread. I need you to hide it from me because that is, you know, out

Of love, right? And he did that for a while and now I I finally got to a point now. But it's kind of like you said, sometimes you just need a little period, right?

Where he was able to do it and now mostly he he himself is lowering his bread consumption. But when he does buy

It, I can have I can handle it being out and like not engaging. But sometimes in the beginning, especially when you're

Introducing like in that instance, it was something that I never even was a thing because I just never had it before in my real life in that way. So, I

Didn't even notice it was a thing because I wasn't buying myself loaves of bread. I was baking myself cookies, so I knew that that was like a thing, right?

And so I think sometimes it's kind like that if you know that you know at lunch you order from this place and they have

That you know whatever killer burrito or whatever that for whatever reason maybe has something in it that you're trying

To avoid right now. Then find see if you can find a totally new place. Right? I often say, you know, one of the things I

I share about in the book when I talk about my sugar journey was there was this amazing cafe in Union Square. It's

A vegan cafe called Peace Food and I would go there and they would make like this yummy Brazil nut chai that I would get and they had these like vegan

Chocolate chip cookies and it became a habit and I had to find a whole new

Place to go get my tea, right? I went I specifically sought out a place to get tea that would didn't have any like they

Had baked goods but they just didn't have any ones that were attractive to me, right? And so that was a kindness

That during that tender part was really an act of self-love. And so I think in

Those spaces if there's like if you know there's a certain thing that's tempting you or you're like every single time I

Get my coffee from this place I always want to get the donut or the whatever or every time we order from this you know Italian place I'm always going to want

To get the whatever it is. Then it is a kindness to yourself to give yourself

That detox period. And then I think for some things like with alcohol, right, you're like, I'm never going back. And

Then for some things like with my experience with bread, um you'll get to a certain point where you're like, oh,

I've now like rewired enough that I can go back into that Italian restaurant and actually order something different from the menu.

I can go back now when I visit New York City. I do go there for their Brazil nut chai because I love it and I don't get the cookie and it's not a big deal,

Right? Um, so I do think yeah, there is that we we don't realize like what you were saying like a lot of we have we

Have the actual like allergy addiction, you know, thing of it, but then so much of it is also habits, right? And so if

We're kind enough to like help ourselves with the habit part of it, you can kind of discern more where your relationship is.

Yeah. You you said something there before. You said you look at something, you go it's not worth having that because it's not going to be it's not

Going to be worth it. Or you say if you're going to have that that's your treat for the entire week. My wife Aaron is incredible when it comes to food.

Like she'll do that. She goes and she goes he goes nope not going to have that. I went and she goes it's not worth it. She'll actually measure things based

On toast. She'll actually go that's like having a that's like having a sandwich.

And she equates calories to like a slice of to like a piece of toast is like a treat because it's like got so certain amount of calories but she'll be like

It's not worth having that because it's it's not worth the way I feel. She's wired herself enough because she's got hypoglycemia as well. Like, so she's

Really careful with their food. And I find that certain things I get to a point where I'm I'm okay with that and I'll go, "Yep, it's not worth having

That." And I'll start feeling that ride that wave. But it's so easy to shift back into it. Right? And I think that

The key that I've picked up from our conversation here is this connection between the mind, body, and spirit. And it's like I'm realizing now that there's

A saying in AA it's like relieve me of the bondage of self that I better better do thy will. And it's it's it sounds

Paradoxical but it isn't. Is when I get relieved of the bondage of self I am better able to love the true self.

Like this lower self is this bondage that we have over this physical world and addictions and diving into sugars

And seeing what it takes off. And I know the things that fire me off now because I've I've kind of realized that I've been a bit of a doctor. Um a food

Doctor, but I'm going to be more no food detective. Food detective. I'm going to be more of that now because I know what sets me off. But I I got to bring in

That realize that it's the same thing with the food as it is with the alcohol. It's like it's a bondage you get.

Yeah. And it's a bondage to the lower self.

The the should we call it the Yeah. The lower self. But soon as you free yourself from the lower self, you actually are open to love the true self.

And you know, I agree. And I think one of the things that I um sometimes remind my clients of that I think echoes that

Is that often times we're eating to fill a god-sized hole. Like we're we're eating to fill a hole that actually only our higher power can fill.

We're not actually eating. Like there's different when we're eating because our body actually needs nourishment, but

Like with what your wife was saying, like if it's like a treat or something like that, a lot of times it's like

You're eating to you're eating to fill a hole that really God can fill. And maybe that's that maybe that's you want a

Little sweetness at the end of the day cuz it's been a stressful day. Maybe that, you know, a lot of times we're dealing with things that are coming up

In our life that are uncomfortable and so we eat as like a distraction or to kind of feel so so that we feel full and then we're not thinking about that

Thing. Um maybe we're nervous at a work dinner and we're, you know, we eat for

Comfort. Um we eat for all of these things that food was never designed for and that food actually can't fix. What

Can food do? Food can nourish you for sure. Food can, you know, depending on what food you're eating, can provide

Amazing nutrients and help your body and assist your body. Um, food can be a great

Um medium to share break bread with people that you care about, so to speak.

But in those moments, it actually doesn't matter. You can have that same connection over a beautiful dish of roasted vegetables or a pizza, right?

The the actual food doesn't matter. You're not missing out on that, right?

Um but ultimately, I think in that moment, that's where when you're on this journey, having a relationship with your

Higher power helps you. And that's kind of what I was seeing with like your lower self, you're describing like lower self and higher self, like your lower

Elf is like, you know, I've I've worked so hard this week. I deserve the pizza, right? And it's like, no one's telling

You you don't deserve, you know, a reward for working hard or anything like that, but it's like

That's your lower self reaching for something that's not actually going to give you what you

Really want, right? And so if what you really want is kind of relief or acknowledgement or whatnot, right? Than

Having a moment where you like tune in to your higher power and actually ask like

What is going to help me really, you know, soothe this craving that I am having, right? It's often not going to be food.

It's almost never going to be food, right? Maybe it'll be like, "Hey, you know, maybe you and your wife should put

On your favorite movie tonight and have like a or play a fun board game that you like, right?" And you know, maybe you

Get to invite her in to say, "Hey, I've had like a really busy work week. It would be great if we could like pick something fun just even if it's just at

Home tonight for us to do to kind of be silly and laugh and and celebrate that, right? That would so much more full like

Fill that hole. And I think oftentimes and sometime and sometimes it is as simple as the conversation with your higher power. Sometimes it's as simple

As being like, "This is on my mind and I'm feeling really anxious about this and having that conversation with your higher power and meditating and and

Whatever however whatever method you use, whether it's meditating or prayer, maybe it's going on a walk, like whatever that is. Um, that actually

Soothes you. So then you can go choose whatever you want for dinner from a place of like neutrality and being like what's going to fuel me the best and not

Like I need this dinner to comfort me or I need this dinner to soothe my anxiety.

Um, thank you for reminding me to be in more constant contact with my higher power because that's I think we keep

Coming back to this same intuition, listening to the body, listening to the listening to your higher power, not giving into the lower temptations and

Lower powers and ultimately from a fact from a fact point of viewing that food makes you feel like crap. Why do we keep doing it? That's the real question, right? Well, we are.

How do you avoid how do you get away from that? And that's what you show people how to do with the connection of the and again the body, mind, and

Spirit. I love it. There's it's perfect synergy with the Viking Academy ethos. I love it. I love it. I love this conversation, too. This has been great.

So fun. Thanks so much for having me.

Well, thank you for being on the podcast. And and and again the name of the book, Mindful the Mindful Table.

The Mindful Table. I like that. I love that. I I was writing it down the first time. I was like, the Mindful Table. It just it's a good I love it. I love it.

And there's a bunch of different Every single recipe in here has a meditation with it so that you can explore all different kinds of meditations. Um, and

There are all sorts of various ones like there's walking ones, there's ones you can do in the bath, there's ones with

Mantra, one guided. And the the point of that is just like you're being a food detective, you could also be like a a

Spiritual detective, right? You can try out all these different methods and what helps you plug in um and what what makes

You feel good. And then um I'll give you guys the link. But if you go to cassandrabodzac.com/themindful

Table, I also have two free guided meditations where I walk you through the process of like tuning into your body and connecting to what your body's

Asking you for right now and learning your body's yeses and your body's nos.

That's fantastic. We're going to grab those links. We're going to put them in the show notes. Cassandra, this been awesome. Thank you for being on the podcast.

Thanks so much, Eric. This is a pleasure.

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