Today, we are exploring the topic of signs that tell us if we are on the right path in life.

I sat down with my good friend, Walt Hampton, a former criminal defense lawyer turned interfaith minister and business coach. With his unique background, Walt brings a wealth of experience in navigating significant career transitions and recognizing the signs that guide our life choices.

In our conversation, we delved into the balance between mind, body, and spirit as key components of well-being and achieving a state of flow and fulfillment. We also discussed how to differentiate between internal intuition and external signs when making life choices, the importance of collaborating with a greater force in life’s creation, and the need to embrace the messiness of creativity in our personal and professional lives. Join us as we uncover valuable insights and explore the signs that guide us on our journeys.

Topics We Explore:

• The balance between mind, body, and spirit as key to well-being and achieving a state of flow and fulfillment
• Differentiating internal intuition and external signs when making life choices.
• Collaborating with a greater force in life’s creation
• Tapping into the messiness of creativity

Connect with Walt Hampton: https://www.walthampton.com/ 

Learn More about The Viking Academy: https://www.vikingacademy.com/scouting-party

Episode Transcript:

Erik Solbakken: Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Viking Academy Podcast. Today on the show, we have my good friend Walt Hampton. Now, Walt has a very i- interesting story. He went from being a criminal defense lawyer to becoming a business coach. He worked with Tony Robbins at Robbins Research International. And then eventually, he became an interfaith minister. And the question that I had for him on this podcast was, what are the signs that showed him that he was on the right track, and what was showing him that he was on the wrong track? And I. We really de- dive deeply into the concept of creation and the fact that creating life and becoming part of this is a really messy process. he shares a lot of great golden nuggets here that helped me a lot. At the end of the, podcast, I was vibrating at a totally h- different level than when I was when I first came into it. And so I'm really excited about doing this podcast with him, and I hope you really enjoy it as much as I did. So without further ado, let's go explore. Walt, it's nice to see you again.

Walt Hampton: Oh, Eric, always such a joy to be with you. Thank you for having me today.

Erik Solbakken: The, the Viking Academy podcast is, the Viking Academy in general I'm really looking forward to. You and I have been talking about it for quite some time. for the listeners out there, Walt and I know each other. We've gone back a long ways. W- been in mastermind groups together, online businesses, and the reason why I wanted to bring Walt onto this podcast so much, Walt, is that I really wanted to explore this idea of the signs that you're on the right path. Yeah. And knowing your experience and what you've gone through, from criminal defense lawyer to interfaith minister. Again, I think it's, it's. I still think we should make a movie on this, on your life. Like, I really think we need to do a movie on your life, 'cause that, that's like, that is, like, made for TV right there. criminal defense lawyer to interfaith minister. But I wanna really explore the signs that you've seen over your lifetime that you were either on the right path or the wrong path. I'm really curious to find out about that. And so maybe we could start from the beginning.

Walt Hampton: Well, I'm, I'm gonna start f- I'm gonna start from the end- Oh. 'cause, 'cause you're interviewing me. so I'm an ultra distance runner. and my, beautiful business partner and amazing wife, Anne Sheybani. We were running across the Grand Canyon, which is 50 miles and 2,000- 20,000 vertical feet in a day. but that's another podcast. And

Erik Solbakken: I was- As you do, as you do on an

Walt Hampton: average day As one, as one does. And I was standing on the Colorado River, and this was on the way out, so it was just dawn, and the light was low, and there was beautiful colors on the, on the canyon walls. And I'm watching the Colorado, and it wasn't rushing. It was just, it was just flowing, this beautiful flow. and as I was watching it, some, boats went by, people who were doing that great traverse of the canyon on the, on the C- Colorado River. And as it goes by Canyon Ranch, it is a pretty smooth and gentle area. I was just kind of transfixed by it. And then, looking up, through geologic time, as it were, a- along the canyon walls. And in that moment, I remembered this quote from the Abraham-Hicks work, Esther Hicks channeling Abraham, who said, "Nothing that you want is upstream." And I thought in that moment, "Damn, I have spent my life getting the fastest, lightest boat, and the carbon fiber paddles, and I have been paddling upstream for so, so long." And I think that's what so many of us do, is we paddle upstream and don't allow the beautiful journey that is the river of life. And so to come back from the story to answer your question, I think that we are, we, we have a fundamental awareness that we're on the right path when life flows more easily. That doesn't mean there aren't rocks and rapids, because there are, there always are. But I think when we wake up every single day and we feel like we're paddling upstream, which was a, a sense I had every single day as a trial lawyer, when there's not that pervasive sense of joy, I think that's a signal that we're not on the right path. And that, so stepping, stepping into the stream and allowing that flow, I think allows life to unfold in a, in beautiful and amazing ways

Erik Solbakken: That concept of being in the flow state, you and I have talked about it quite often and, and we hear about it over and over again. It's like find your joy, find your passion, follow what makes you happy. It's, it's something that you and I have had to f- uncondition ourselves against the old way of thinking that grind nose to the grindstone, burn it out. I'm a, I became a chartered accountant, you became a defense lawyer, and it was corporate go and you gotta struggle. If there's no struggle, it's not worth it. what? Like that narrative of if you're not struggling and it doesn't hurt, you're not growing. And I personally have a little. Like, I've always had a problem with that 'cause I like hard work and I like being able to look back on something I did, and I always feel good about it, but at the same time I felt like I've been banging my head against the wall. And then there's moments where I have this beautiful flow state. It's that oscillation between the flow state and just this feels good and this is right and it's ener- energetic and joyful to, no, I really have to put my nose down and grind it out. I always have a problem kind of balancing between those two. Like, and so y-, and I. Like, when have you. When you say that, be in the flow state, I get it, but how do you practically practice it is the real thing. Like, that's where I wanna get to with Terra Firma. Yeah. And for yourself, like when did you - reach that understanding and are you in that flow state now?

Walt Hampton: . So m- many levels of beautiful questions there. I used the metaphor of the river, the Colorado River, the mighty Colorado River, because we know that there are lots of, dangerous rapids b- below, Canyon Ranch that bad things happen in. And being in the flow state isn't all, s- rainbows and unicorns and without challenges or without trouble. there are rapids. There are, there are things that, that disrupt, that cause upset, that cause challenges. But the predominant feel of flow state is that, a, a deep existential knowing that you're doing something that feels right, that it's in integrity with who you are as a human being. and I think, that this is the work of our lifetime. the, for those of us who choose, to, to live this way, it is the work of a lifetime. I used to, early on in my, in my coaching, training, speaking, I used to talk a lot about work, work-life balance. And I have come to discover that work-life balance is kind of bullshit because work and life, and life is a little bit like a café table on a cobblestone street. It's, it's like all the. It's, it's never quite, all balanced. And so every, every day we wake up, and it's an invitation again to step into the river. But with an awareness that there is a river to step into, and with practice in stepping into it, it becomes- less hard. I was going to say easier, but I'm gonna say less hard to do it, because it is the work of a lifetime

Erik Solbakken: And it's, there, there's kind of a, there's a fundamental presupposition in your statement about going into the river is that you are assuming the river is taking you to a place that you really want to be at. So there has to be some faith base in there that, yeah, the universe is taking you to a destination that you are destined to get to, and it is good for you. Do what? Like to be able to step in and trust that process and go that it's taking me to a better place. It's taking me to where I need to go. It's whatever that is and allowing it to happen. It takes a, it takes a big step in faith and experience. Like for, for me, like going back on my experience and especially with, my alcoholism, I had to really let go completely and just let the universe take me down the path. At the same time, it said, "Here's the paddle. You're in the boat. Go down, but you're gonna need to traverse a couple of the rocks along the way,"? But there was this, I had to let go and have this faith that it's taking me to the right spot.

Walt Hampton: So there's another, floating story, that I think helps illustrate this. and certainly after, the recent hurricanes and flooding will resonate with some. There is a town in which a horrific, storm comes through and, and the storm waters are rising and the Coast Guard and the police are evacuating everybody and law enforcement comes to this man's house and says, "We need to evacuate." The owner says, "Well, God will provide." And, he stays. And hours go by and the waters rise and a, He's up on the second floor now and the boat, Coast Guard boat comes by and, and with the bullhorn yells, "You've got to evacuate. We're here to take you to safety." And he looks out the window and he says, "God will provide.", and then a couple hours later, he's up on his roof 'cause the waters have gotten so high and the helicopter is there and says, "We're gonna come and rescue you." And he yells out, "Nope, God's gonna provide." And he, he drowns, and he, goes to heaven. and he's s- and he's really pissed off. And he says, "God, I thought you were gonna provide." And God says, "I sent you law enforcement, the Coast Guard, and a helicopter, dude." So, y-, so some people u- So some, some people use, the universe. I, I, I believe, my theology, is a very grounded, embodied, earth related theology. and I think that this 14.1-year-old, 14.1 billion year old universe that is constantly expanding, is set in motion by an all loving creator who wants the best for creation. And the truth is that creation is messy, and it is creation, and creation is messy, and we get to co-create with this creator. and our co-creation is messy. and all of that means that we have a responsibility, when we step into the river, as you say, to, to show up and to be active co-creators in this journey

Erik Solbakken: That's beautiful. I love that. It reminds me of one of the lines in, in AA where in, in the 12 steps and it, it says, "Faith without works is dead.". So you can't sit there and just keep praying and saying, "Oh, I have faith, I have faith, I have faith," and not do anything.

Walt Hampton: You

Erik Solbakken: know? That

Walt Hampton: con- Bill, Bill W. Bill W. stole that from, St. Paul and the Corinthians, but-

Erik Solbakken: Okay, well-. that's

Walt Hampton: okay.

Erik Solbakken: No, that's good. Well, d- but you, but see, this is part of it, this is part of the exploration is to find out- Yeah. and I wanna find out more and, and you have this deep understanding, the knowledge again with the interfaith ministry that you, you became an interfaith minister and, and I was there in Berkeley when you were-

Walt Hampton: You were there in person.

Erik Solbakken: It was just- I saw it. It was awesome. I was there with my daughter, my Isla, and my wife Erin. Yeah. And it was an experience that I've never had in my lifetime, and my daughter still, she still talks about it. She's like-. "That was the most eclectic thing I've ever seen.", for an 11-year-old to say that is, is quite something. Yeah. Right. and all that life experience she's had. Yeah. But anyways, the, the, this. I like what you said there, that creation is messy.

Walt Hampton: Yeah.

Erik Solbakken: Because it. And my father-in-law, a Scottish fella, he, he said something, he said, "It's a big, mean world out there. Get used to it." Like, in other words, the reality grounded in terms of it's a messy life. Life is messy. Creation is messy, and you get your hands dirty. But if you really lean into it and just say, "This is part of it, let's just, let's play with this and have fun," it doesn't mean you're always gonna be joyful during it. Sometimes you're gonna be sad and upset, and things are gonna happen, it's gonna go sideways. But it's a big mess, it's a messy thing. But I still have this ethos in my head about the Viking Academy about that there is a reason why each one of us are here. Like, there is a purpose to me being here, and me exploring to find out what that purpose is, is my purpose. Like, that's part of the purpose. And when, when I get into flow state, as you mentioned, time just flies. Like, it's just. And it just, it's, it's joyful and I'm ne- I'm not stressed, but I'm, I'm doing something and it feels like it's not hard work. Like, I -. it feeds me more energy than I put into it. Like, when I'm playing with my band, my band, I'm playing heavy metal music, like I could play and sing, I'm drumming and singing for three hours straight, and at the end of it- as we're packing up, I'm still singing and I'm dancing around. Like, I'm filled with energy and just, it's awesome, right? But then when I go and I'm doing the stuff like I did when I was the accountant and I'm pushing and I'm trying to get the billable hours and I'm fight- and it's just- When w- when do that you're, in your experience now, and this is the signs that I'm, I'm looking for, when do that you're, what you're doing is you're pushing too hard and it- you're hitting a brick wall when you're supposed to not go after that brick wall versus this is the thing you need to push through? Because you're-. you're an ultra distance, like you're a major athlete, and that, and when you're running, if all of a sudden you're like, "I just don't feel like running today. It's like flow st- I'm not in the flow state. I'm just gonna stop and turn around and go home." That's not how it works. No. You have to, there's n- that pain threshold you have to, you only have to break through. Like when do, and this may be a bigger question obviously, so when do when to be in, when you're in the flow state, let go and let the universe do what it's gonna do, flow down the river, and when do you need to get your hands dirty and push through?

Walt Hampton: Well, it's-

Erik Solbakken: Have some resilience, which is one of the things that I keep trying to instill in Isla, my, my daughter, is, and, and I'm seeing this generation of kids that are just given everything and everyone's trying to parachute parent and all the rest of that, and I'm like-. no, I want her to have adversity. I want her-. to struggle. I want her to have a difficult time because for me, that's when the growth happens. So how do you-. how do you reconcile the two?

Walt Hampton: You really use some languaging that illustrates it. I think there is A very ascertainable difference between feeling light in it versus heavy. Is it really heavy emotion where you're grinding like in the accounting world? is it just, is it just not happening? Versus there's a, there's a, a more lightness to the emotionality in your music and even though you, I know you, you've practiced hard, and, things might not always go right. And so there's. I think we can become more attuned, but there's also, there are also external sides. So y- I think we need to become attuned to our own being, in the world, but there are also, external sides. So, I, I do a lot of technical rock climbing, and for 10 summers in a row I climbed out in the Tetons. And I remember this one summer I was climbing onto this mountain in the Central Teton Range, and we had lost the route. and this buddy, his name was Dana, and I were, were looking for it, and he said, "I think the route goes over here,", gesturing to the left. And I said, "I think you're, I think you're wrong. I think it goes here." He said, "Well, I'm gonna go up this way." I said, "Okay, I'm gonna go up this way." And, I'm going along and it, and it's feeling a little dicey, but the moves keep on unfolding, and feeling a little exposed 'cause if I took a fall there, it would be bad. But unfolding, and then in the other couloir I, I'm hearing Dana go, "Oh, sh- sh-" And the rocks are coming down and tumbling down. And I said, "Dana, I, I, I think the route is here." "No, I'm sure it's over here." More rocks tumbling down. And he finally, he finally climbs back down and he's about 100 feet below me and he said, "I think you're right. I think that's the route." And so, there are, there are objective signs, when, when it's, even when we lea- are leaning in and giving our all, it's still not going. Well, maybe it's not the right route

Erik Solbakken: And that is, that is that knowledge of when, when d- like the, you, what was that? I can't remember who the, wrote that book about, quitting. Oh, is it Seth Godin? Is The Dip. Like when to, when to quit, right? Seth talks about the dip and where to-. to stop. And, and to know, to see the dip ahead of time, you had the vision when your buddy was going up to the left. You saw the, you saw the dip at the ahead of time. You went, "Eh, this doesn't. I can see where there's gonna be a problem there." So you saw the external and, but you also covered the internal. You looked at your- Yeah. feeling inside and that intuition that, that, that s- that sense inside you that can guide you in the right direction, that tells you where to go, that there's that inner knowing or inner voice. But I've found that it's taken me a lot of time and practice and experience to trust that voice, and I still to this day, if I was 100% honest, can say that I don't trust that voice all the time because I sometimes question myself saying, "Am I just listening to my own bullshit?" Mm. "Am I just listening to Eric in the background rationalizing something as opposed to it really being the right way to go that I'd internal?" And I have to check in-. with someone and say, "Hey, this is what I'm thinking. I'm feeling this. What do you think?" And then the person will go, like, I maybe throw it to you and you're like, "Oh crap, don't do that." Or you went like, "Oh, that feels right." So I n- I need some of that external feedback too, but how do you. It's, for me it's been a, a, a period of life experience with some faith and some testing and trying, but ultimately I love why you said that you attune your internal to the external. It's that com- combination of the internal and the external. So what is the outside world showing you? What is the inside telling you? Which obviously is a combination of your experience and your intuition connecting to, shall we call it your higher power, that higher intelligence that's inside-. us that we don't tap all the time.

Walt Hampton: .

Erik Solbakken: And, and your internal motivation, like what you want- Mm. at the time. And this, and-

Walt Hampton: Well, let me speak to that last li- that last piece is really important. So for me, I have come after many, many long years, to trust pretty well my intuition and my guidance, as long as I spend enough time getting g- grounded around that. But I think we also have to have a deep self-awareness and self-knowledge because, you mentioned I'm a runner. I run almost every day. We run some big distances. we've run some things like the Grand Canyon, and- There is something that is, such a demon every single day. It is the hardest part of the run, bar none, every day. Particularly we're in the, moving into winter in the Northeast, it's opening the door and putting, putting my shoes on and opening the door.

Erik Solbakken: That's the hardest part? I hate. I, I, I don't wanna

Walt Hampton: run. Most days I don't wanna run. S- seriously, I just, I, I will tell myself I hate to run. I don't wanna

Erik Solbakken: run. I hate to run.

Walt Hampton: But I also know that once I put on my shoes, get out the door, start that first 100 yards, 200 yards, 300 yards, that my body begins to soften, I begin to open up. So I have to know my own patterns of resistance too. Because if I didn't know my own patterns of resistance and I just trusted how I felt at the moment then I would never get out the door. And so, that's a, a little bit of a, of a, a paradoxical, thing that only comes from self-knowledge and self-awareness because one could say, "Well, I'm not in a flow state this morning to run, so I won't," and just not. But every day. But you said something else important, and this is so key. I've been an executive coach for 17, 18 years now. I believe good coaches have coaches. Good coaches have accountability partners. As a, as ordained clergy, I have a spiritual director. you need other people as sounding boards. You need other people to call you on your own bullshit. You need other people to ask the question, as you and I have asked each other, is, "Does that sound right to you?" And just, really lean into. And have, and have a trusted advisor, a coach, consultant, spiritual director, somebody to check in with so that you're not swallowing your own bullshit.

Erik Solbakken: Yes. That, that, that concept of surrounding yourself with your tribe comes to mind obviously with the Viking Academy, 'cause it's what I'm- Oh, I think

Walt Hampton: it's, I, I, I think it's brilliant for that reason, especially for that reason.

Erik Solbakken: Yeah. It, it, it create that tribe so you have accountability and, and, and some mentorship and checking in with others and, and we're social creatures and that, that, that helps. It's, again, I think we keep talking about these concepts, but there's also this balancing act that happens because if you follow the social creatures where they're going, they're like a bl- bunch of bloody lemmings running off the end of a cliff right now. If you- Agreed. if you were to follow and listen to social media and where it's going- Mm, it, it, it, it looks like. I think you have a, a very small percentage of the really bad actors in the world putting out the real garbage stuff on the social, and we project it to be the majority of people. I believe that majority of people are nothing like social media shows at all. I think it's the extremes on the right, extremes on the left are sort spewing all this insanity. But if you think that is the s- the group of people that you should be following, then they're gonna take you off the edge of the cliff. And so that's why it's so important, and I love how you shared that, - It's important to have the right people to talk to. Yes. Not just a group of people. Many people. Like, so, y- you're an executive coach and you have a coach. I'm also an executive coach, and I often say that if you have a coach who doesn't have a coach, you need to find a new coach.

Walt Hampton: Amen. Amen. Right?

Erik Solbakken: Amen. And so y- you should always be growing and improving and g- bouncing your ideas and thoughts off someone else so they can, they can call you out on your bullshit- Yes if it's bullshit, right? Yes. And so there's this concept of tribe and the, and, and the people you're surrounding yourself with, and, you're the, you're the, you're the culmination of the five closest people you spend your time with in today. So if you have-. right people around you and they're all a bunch of fuck-ups, yeah, chances are you're gonna get sucked into the fuck-up realm, right? And but if you fi- surround yourself with five quality people, they're gonna raise you up and lift you up, and they're gonna help you- Yes. do that. So the concept of tribe is so important. But you said, you said one other thing that really really got me thinking is that you were talking about your mind was telling you and your feelings, quote-unquote, "feelings," were telling you, "I don't wanna go out the door today. I don't wanna g- put on my shoes. I don't wanna start running. I don't. My mind doesn't." But you knew from experience that once you started running, your body would give you a positive feedback, and it would start getting into the flow state, and it would start relaxing. And then I'm sure once you finished your run, your body would be happy with you and give you some endorphins and dopamine-. and all the rest of those things. And so this is where, again, my, my ethos with the Viking Academy is around this intersection of these three dimensions of ourselves, of these three dimensions of being human, the mind, the body, and the spirit. You were talking about how you've connected your mind and your body going, "Look, my mind's telling me, they're playing tricks on me.". "But I know from experience that my body will be happy. Let's go out and do it anyways even though my body's telling me not to, my feelings.". "I don't feel like it today," like this authenticity. "I don't feel like my authentic self today." Like, who, who wants a not. Who wants an authentic brain surgeon? I think you're the one who brought that one up in our, in our mastermind calls with our other friends. It's like, I'm sorry, authenticity's lovely unless you're a brain surgeon and you're about to work on me. I don't want an authentic brain surgeon that-

Walt Hampton: I don't wanna know if you're triggered today. Y-

Erik Solbakken: yeah, I'm feeling triggered, and I don't really feel like I could really, s- - Be my, be my most authentic self put your brain back together. Yeah. I can't. I just. No, I need you to just buckle in and be the professional and fix my brain, right? Yeah. And do the brain surgery, right? So, but you've connected that body and the mind together with, with experience. Some, motivation to get over that hump, to get you running. And so that first part of experience means the only way you can experience and have knowledge of how your body's gonna react when you run is to go run. Like, you need to explore. And again, this is like- Yeah. I don't mean to keep pumping the tires on the Viking Academy, but I get more and more excited about this because that whole concept here is to be an explorer. Go explore. Go figure out what makes you tick, right? And so for you, you've explored your body and your mind and your spirit at a, such a deep level. Of all the people I know, like, you're just. I hold you in high, high regard from that just as an example of someone who's really goes deep to understand what your body wants and what it likes to do, and understand what your mind needs to be stimulated, and to deepen your faith and your understanding and your spirit. And when you combine those three together, and I've watched you over the last. Oh, God, how many years have we known each other

Walt Hampton: now? Oh, a lot of years, goodie. Like,

Erik Solbakken: a lot of years, a lot of years. Like, I'm thinking we're w- we- Yeah. close, running down almost on 10. Yeah. I- it must be. I've seen you grow and expand and finally go, "I'm not in the right space," and now you're, now you've found your, your happy place. I've never seen you as happy as I seen you now.

Walt Hampton: Yeah.

Erik Solbakken: And that's what I want- That's right. people that- Yeah. know that this is possible, right? Yes. But it's possible- So-. because you've explored those three areas and you've experienced it, and now you, you're working with those three aspects of yourself.

Walt Hampton: Yeah, but you and I have touched on body and mind, and what we haven't really touched on yet is that third component, which is spirit. and when I draw it, if I'm teaching a workshop on this, it's a triangle, and it's body and mind on the laterals, but spirit on the base of the triangle because I think it's only when we get grounded in our own being, regardless of our, faith tradition or, or no faith tradition, but connecting with the ground of all being and getting quiet and allowing The flakes of our lives to settle. when I teach mindfulness and meditation, I'll often bring an old holiday snow globe, and I'll shake it up, and then I'll place it on the podium or on the table, and the flakes will settle. And the fruits of meditation, the fruits of sitting in silence are the flakes in our lives, which are many for most of us, begin to settle, and then we get to see more clearly. And so that spiritual groundedness is the key to unlocking these other parts of the triangle. Because, I don't know, if, if I'm, if I'm not grounded, I tend to. if chocolate chip cookies are within 20 miles, I go drive in the, drive around and, and chase them and eat them. I, so I, I get unmoored from myself, and, and then do all sorts of things that are unresourceful. and so I think a key to unlocking it all for those who are listening to us is, is really that, that spiritual base, that emotional base that allows us the clarity to see that direction, to, to look up and see that that's the root or not the root.

Erik Solbakken: Yes. That's r- again, reminding me of one of the principles in the recovery movement, that they s- you have to cle- you, you recover spiritually, then you recover mentally and physically. It not. That's the ordering. It's- Yes. physic-, spiritual, then mental and physical. Like, that's how it works. It works in that order. And-

Walt Hampton: Yes.

Erik Solbakken: , that- Just

Walt Hampton: a, just 100% of the time.

Erik Solbakken: And, and so again, that comes back to, this, this presupposition of a higher calling, that there is a purpose to your life, that there's something to aspire to, an upward vision. And, one of, one of the, one of my favorite, thinkers of our time right now is Jordan Peterson, and he's intersecting the psychology, which I have, also have a psychology degree, with the biblical studies, and he's put the, the Christian, p- specifically on the Christian side, and he puts the two together to unpack how the stories in the Bible is metaphysical, psychological, s- truths that last today. Whether or not you say they're actual stories, but if you reframe them in terms of bit metaphysical and how you think, it works incredibly well. And this, this is that-. up- upward vision of there is a higher calling, there is a purpose, there is a reason why I'm here. And-. and searching and finding out what that is, and y-, you and I've. Case in point, the interfaith, the or- ordination that we had in Berkeley, there was every style of spiritual teaching there all together. Like, it was-. unbelievable. Everyone from different angles coming at it from their, what resonated well with them. But it's all under the spirit of this upward vision of attaching and connecting to your spirit and helping others to do the same, is absolutely beautiful. That seems to be the underpinning of everything. There has to be an upward vision for something you need to go towards, so there has to be faith there that it's there, and you're just constantly seeking it. If you're constantly-. seeking towards it, it's going to raise you upwards.

Walt Hampton: Yes. Yes. And, and the Buddhists would say it's all fingers pointing at the same moon. and I think that we are, all drawn to something. Maslow in Psychology 101 talks about the hierarchy of, of needs. And, at the bottom of the pyramid now as it's drawn, of course, is internet, but then, - food, shelter, wellbeing. And at the top of the, top of the pyramid is, is meaning and purpose.

Erik Solbakken: And we. You need to, you need to come out with a new book and saying, it, it, here's the updated version of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. And really this is what it. That is a meme. You gotta put that on the inter-. for sure. Here it is. It's internet is first. That's right. Then food and shelter. Yeah, yeah.

Walt Hampton: Yeah. But at the top, we do crave. the Rick Warren's book, Purpose Driven Life, there's, 50 million copies in 35 or 40 different languages. it's, it is a universal, sense that, we do crave meaning and purpose in our own ways across traditions, across ethnicities, across cultures. That's, that's just true of who we are as human beings. And, and thank goodness. we, if we, if we didn't yearn, if we didn't want, to seek, we'd be still sitting in caves wondering how we could create fire. and yet here we have the interweb. So.

Erik Solbakken: Th- this- This kind of reminds me of the way I used to be. So the person that I used to be was always the person that wanted to a- I wanted to get to the end, to the answer, right? That's, I think, why I became an accountant, 'cause one plus one equals two. There is. It's. And it's, the story's over. Like one plus one is two, it's done. But this concept of not arriving, constantly searching, constantly growing, never knowing completely what the picture is, I think that's something that I'm really starting to embrace now. Like I'm really starting to embrace the fact that maybe I will never know exactly what the purpose of all this is, because we have been on the planet for, whatever the period of time that us humans have been on the planet. No one has really fully had a full picture, said, "Ah, I figured it out. Here it is," and hand it to everybody, and we've got the answer. It's been going on for millennia, millennia, millennia. It's this, if we just embrace. Or from my experience is once I embrace the fact that I will just never know, but if I keep seeking, I will keep finding more, and the treasures become richer and more joyful, and I feel more in flow state. And in a sense, I feel like it'll never end. If I keep doing it, it'll just keep getting more and more and better, as long as I keep that ex- exploratory perspective. Like as long as I keep exploring and keep looking and keep engaging and, and talking to my tribe and, and trying to figure out how this body works, Eric. 'Cause, you are the ultra distance runner. I know for a fact I'd get one, a, a mile down the road and I'd have my shin splints. I'd be toast, right? I'm okay with this, no problem. I'll go on my drum set and go to the gym. Like I, I, that's fine. That's how my body works. Your body works differently. But as long as I'm searching and exploring, there's no end to it. It becomes fun. Like it's w- how exciting is this? Like you're, you're not done, Walt. I know you're not done, and you and I are both in the same mindset. Like I don't understand the concept of retirement. Like I don't wanna retire because being retired is to take out of service. I wanna continually be of service- Amen. and keep exploring. Like how fun is that?

Walt Hampton: . It's beautiful. It's beautiful. Yeah, and it brings us back to that, one of those first threads we talked about, which is that- Creativity is messy, but, you watched, watching Isla grow up and I raised my boys, and kids go out and they get messy, and they don't, they don't mind getting messy. they get all dirty in the mud and, dirty with their finger paints. And, and creativity at its core, this playful creativity, which is where we were as children, is, is still within our, in our beings, is to reconnect with the idea that, wow, we get to create every single day. I've trained my mind to ask a question every single day as soon as my eyes pop open, "What amazing opportunities will I see today?" That's the first question I ask in the morning, "What amazing opportunities." And then all sorts of stuff begins to appear. And I think holding a place of playful curiosity in business and athletics and entertainment and music, all of it, I think it, it, our lives can be these great creative treasures.

Erik Solbakken: I think you just put the cherry on top of the podcast because I don't think we can go any farther than that, Wolf. That was beautiful. I, the vision of the ki- like, the kids making a mess and enjoying it-

Walt Hampton: I

Erik Solbakken: know. and what you j- that's just- It's joy. it's perfect.

Walt Hampton: It's joy.

Erik Solbakken: So I say we leave it right there.

Walt Hampton: Perfect. Such a gift to be with you, man.

Erik Solbakken: Thank you, my brother. Thanks for listening to the Viking Academy podcast. Make sure to leave us your honest feedback by leaving a review on Apple or Spotify, and hit subscribe so you never miss an episode.